Lost S5 Finale

[Gogan]

< 11 hours to go!

[rursusferre]

we shall see what happens, but I am already calling it. They "die" in a nuclear explosion only to wake up in the present.

[Gogan]

Really? I mean, that seems to the be direction they're hinting at, but what will next season be about if they end S5 like that?

[Jirouu]

i have yet to even watch one episode of this show...

[rursusferre]

I think the next season will really just put everything to rest. Why is Locke so important, what is the smoke monster, who is Richard really, who is dharma, who is Jacob, who is Christian, why jack is special, what is at the foot of the of the statue. There is a lot. .

[Onion]

I think the next season will really just put everything to rest. Why is Locke so important, what is the smoke monster, who is Richard really, who is dharma, who is Jacob, who is Christian, why jack is special, what is at the foot of the of the statue. There is a lot. .

what lies in the shadow of the statue!

[Sly]

do you guys realize how gay you are?

[Gogan]

WOW... first 2 mins of the episode... this is gonna be EPIC!

[rursusferre]

Locke, interesting.

[Gogan]

Okay, here are my notes as I watched the episode. Obviously tons of spoilers, so don't read if you haven't watched it yet.

*****

So Kate and Jacob met when she was a kid. Interesting that Jacob wasn't always on the island.

So they have to dismantle the bomb to move it. But didn't Richard say in the last episode that "they'd get it out the same way [they] got it in", implying he knew exactly how it got down there in the first place? Why the change of plans?

Weird that Richard doesn't know how/why Locke is alive.

Wow, Jacob met Sawyer as a kid too. Guessing this will become a theme across all our O6 characters.

Darn, would've been interesting to see how the sub goes to and from the island.

OH SHIT! Nadia gets drilled by a car thanks to Jacob. Interesting, Sayid and Nadia were married. What time/life did that happen I wonder?

Weird that Richard just abandons Jack and Sayid on their way to blow up the island. Richard must know more than he's letting on.

Uh-oh, Sayid down. Is he the main character they're killing off?

Holy shit, Vincent?! Oh snap! Rose and Bernard! LOL @ Bernard! They don't seem too pleased. They look good though.

So the other-others know about Jacob. Interesting.

Jacob and Anna... interesting. Guess she's going to be a main character next season.

"[Jacob] isn't there. Hasn't been in a long time. Someone else has been using it" -- talking about the smoke monster?

Jacob reading "Everything that Rises Must Converge" by Flannery O'connor at the time Locke falls out of the building, breaking his back. And Jacob brings Locke back to life?! Definitely some super-natural thing going on with Jacob.

So Ben was telling the truth. He never met Jacob. I remember watching that episode back in S2(?) when Locke and Ben went to see Jacob. And there were flashes of "Jacob" sitting in the chair in that cabin. Looked kinda like Christian.

Nice... Sun finds Charlie's ring. I was wondering if that would ever turn up again.

Wow, Jacob meets Sun and Jin not too long ago. He definitely seems to be hand-picking people. But why?

Man, first hour FLEW by!

And there's Jacob and Jack. Hmm... kinda thought he mighta been the reason his patient survived.

Haha... Jacob and Hurley. Oooh, he visited Hurley after he left the island. Interesting.

Wow, they really drop the nuke. Oh shit, they're killing off Juliet! NO! So the nuke didn't even do anything. Hmm.

OH SNAP! What lies in the shadow of the statue! He just busted out some latin!! Guess we'll have to wait for the translation to learn what it means. Wow, Locke was in the box. Who is meeting with Jacob, indeed!

OMG, "Locke" is someone from the Black Rock from the beginning! I guess next season will be all about who Jacob is, where he came from, who are the people from the Black Rock, how did they find out about the island, why were they trying to get there, what's this "loophole", and so on.

Wow, Juliet isn't dead yet. Sigh... stupid nuke never went off. Sayid sucks at rigging explosives. Ok, so a lengthy drop down the shaft didn't set it off, but a few quick taps with a rock does it. Sigh. Great way to end it though, with it going off.

Conclusion? Fucking EPIC season finale. Surpassed all expectations. EPIC! Gonna be a long wait till next year.

[Yooxra]

Part 1

Have not red the posts before this one, i will after i watch the show. Good start with Jacob, the boat shows that it looks like it's anywhere between 1400-1900s?

So Kate meets Jacob while young. Why didn't any of the others? So far it seems like Locke is a decendant or playing the part of the guy that wanted to kill Jacob long ago, and possibly Kate is playing Jacobs part right now. What i mean by that is, it seems like they have something in common with each other that is sorta the same for some reason.

So 30 years in the future already. Richard seems like he's playing something off. So what's in the box, hope it's not a dick.

So Jacob meets Sawyer when he was young also, interesting. Richard seeming puzzled by asking Jack if he knows Locke and Jack telling him not to give up on him was weird that Richard seemed clueless. Ben telling Locke that he was gonna follow him seemed funny just that Ben seemed scared not to cause of what his daughter said, but seems ironic that Locke is gonna use Ben to kill Jacob, ironic cause Ben is the user of ppl to kill ppl for him.

So Jacob meets sayid and causes the death of his love, that scene was sad. So Daniel's mom was the leader of the hostiles at that point in time, hmm.

So Jacob has that chick with the pilot helping him. Jacob very active in this episode! So ellana or whatever her name is, her and her crew looking for Jacob at the statue( i so need the power for statue for my own purposes ).

Lol. Just lol. With Jacob sitting on the bench and Locke falling from the building behind him. Jacob meets Locke. So Jacob meets Jin & Sun too. Jacob seems very smart, probably why he is still alive after that guy in the beginning threatened to kill him.

*

So i wonder how this all began and how Jacob and whoever that other guy in the beginning of the episode came to be, and came to be on the island.

Why was the woman Ellana willing to help Jacob when he asked her to in the hospital?

On to part 2

Part 2

Jacob meets Jack, so... This is pretty much showing Jacob meeting everyone i guess. What i don't understand is why jack always feels like his dad is always trying to keep him down. His dad even trys to explain to him that he isn't but Jack doesn't seem to believe him. Which leads me to wonder what does his dad have to do with the whole island story still. Also really makes me want the answer to how old is the island and if it's been there since the beginning of time if it even goes back that long.

So Sawyer and Jules both use what they learned so far back at childhood in their futures. So Jack says it feels like a million years ago ( that confirms it, island has been here since the beginning ). Sawyer still loves Kate but is loyal to Jules. So sweet Kate is with Jack. She loves him!

Jacob meets Hugo tells him he is blessed, Hugo decides to get on the plane after all, makes sense. So they are gonna go through with the bomb deployment. If all goes as planned, the plane will never crash. But Jack said to Kate this feels right, maybe it feels right cause it happened before so it will change nothing? Seems like it's leading towards Ben killing Jacob and then they blow the bomb up and it resets Jacob dying probably.

I missed a part, when Jack told Kate why did you ask me not to ask about the kid, what did Kate say?

Why is Locke so bent on killing Jacob for Ben? Seems like Locke has his own motives and is using Ben like Ben uses people. Seems like Ben should of never been the leader in the first place and he shouldn't of had the kid anyway, he fucking stole the kid lol.

So they are in the statue and heading to Jacob.

Phil got owned! Jules dying like that was sad! Jack getting hit with the toolbox was funny. Jules living that then finishing the bomb wow.

*

So in the end. I kinda felt from the beginning that Locke might be that guy that threatened to kill Jacob in the beginning of the episode. Guess i'm right or at least i think i'm right. The corpse of Locke and the loophole Jacob claimed in the end kinda confirms it. But never know with this show i guess.

I wonder how that all happened tho, whats their connection and why he wanted to kill him. Now that he is dead what happens. Looks like they will have plenty more to explain in the last season. We shall see what happens to the Oceanic crew too.

So jacob claimed to be spinning something. Is he fate now? Why did Jacob say what about you to Ben like that? Lots more questions.

Was good.

[rursusferre]

They are bringing alot of supernatural into this, I think. Almost making it seem jacob is a god. It seems almost BSG like. Like, here is my theory. What if if in the far future, the world ends. Jacob goes super far into the past (thus making him immortal). He is trying to change the future. "anything that is not the end is progress". Jacob is reliving a time loop over and over trying to prevent the end of the world, shaping events each time. When the end comes he can't die, because he has traveled so far back in time. So he comes back to try different stuff. Maybe the other guy is his brother or something and he is sick of it all.

[rursusferre]

also, that dude is the smoke monster. For sure i think. Also, this proves that Locke isn't special, and that it is actually Jack that will lead the island. They always talked about him having a destiny.

[Gogan]

They are bringing alot of supernatural into this, I think.

Yeah, it certainly seems that way. I'll be a little disappointed if they go that route, however, since they claimed fairly early on that the show didn't involve the supernatural, and that everything about the island had a scientific explanation.

I think you're spot on about the world ending and all of this is an attempt to prevent that from happening. In fact, that's why the Dharma Initiative was created and was on the island in the first place, per the Lost Experience (http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Valenzetti_Equation). Jacob does seem to be involved in this effort as well, though he clearly pre-dates Dharma. Will be interesting to see what his connection is to them.

[Gogan]

also, that dude is the smoke monster. For sure i think.

Which dude? Jacob's "friend" from the very beginning of the episode? Is the monster taking Locke's form at the end as well? It seemed to take Alex's form when confronting Ben, so it seems plausible that it could take Locke's form as well. I guess the questions then would be why does the monster need to take Locke's form? Why does it need Ben to kill Jacob? How did the guy turn into the smoke monster (or vice versa) to begin with? And what's the "loophole" that he found?

That does seem to make some sense though.

And on a slightly separate note, after Jacob is stabbed by Ben, Jacob says "They're coming". Who is he referring to?

Also, this proves that Locke isn't special, and that it is actually Jack that will lead the island. They always talked about him having a destiny.

I love this theory, mainly because I'd rather see Jack be the hero than Locke. Locke has turned into this kind of bad guy at the end of this season. So Locke's only purpose was, through his death, to get the rest of the O6 back to the island -- which really had very little to do with any of them going back, in retrospect. Of course, if Locke isn't really special at all, it kind of negates most of what happened in previous seasons. The others all think Locke is special and their destined leader. Why would they think that, if someone (Jacob) didn't already tell them that?

[rursusferre]

Well, for some reason they can't kill each other. Who knows why. Locke is postured in some insanely complicated scheme to kill Jacob, literally years in the making. As I have said in the past, I think faraday may have been misled in the lack of choice. If anything, it looks like Jacob has np direct influence but steers choices instead. At anytime they might have been able to get off the train. Jacob probably figured he could talk ben out of it of something. But "Locke" had everything covered, with possibly several time "loops" to work it out. The anhks are obvious references to their immortality. Richard says in latin "he who will serve/protect us all" or something to that effect. I rewatched it today, and a really good line from Jacob is : "do you like it? I made it myself, it's taken a very long time. But I guess that's the point when you make all the thread yourself (or something like that)". I think it's a direct explanation of his part in all this. Ok enough stream of conciousness, fuck iPhone is hard to type on.

[Gogan]

Richard says in latin "he who will serve/protect us all" or something to that effect.

Oh nice!

The Lost forums are lit up today with all the parallels between Jacob and "Anti-Jacob" and various religions/mythologies. The similarities to those of egyptian mythology (http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=60530) are obviously intentional, even if the writers don't choose to directly state it's the core plot.

I'm becoming less opposed to Jacob and Anti-Jacob (AJ) being supernatural entities the more I think about it all, simply because the the story that's being so delicately woven is really interesting and impressive.

A few minor details that are being brought up today that are kind of interesting:

"I loved the "LOST" at the end with the white background. The Light Side seems to have the upper hand going into the final season" -- an interesting interpretation I hadn't thought about. source (http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2711811&postcount=10)

Screenshots of Juliet's flashback:

http://getlostpodcast.iimmgg.com/image/5eb016da4f304fc520c7ebe95c416a8f

For something that happened at least 30 years ago (the 70s), the house and people sure look pretty modern. Further, the book on the table "Mysteries of the Ancient Americas" was published in 1986.

The book Jacob was reading (Everything That Rises Must Converge) was apparently a collection of short stories about the pettiness and graces of humanity. Perhaps ties into Jacob and AJ's opening discussion:

Jacob: I take it you're here because of the ship.
Anti-Jacob: I am. How did they find the island?
J: You'll have to ask them when they get here.
AJ: I don't have to ask. You brought them here. You're trying to prove me wrong aren't you?
J: You are wrong.
AJ: Am I? They come, fight, they destroy, they corrupt. Always ends the same.
J: But it only ends once. Anything that happens before that is just progress.

Interestingly, Rose says something similar when Sawyer, Juliet, and Kate run into them. She says something along the lines of "it's always something with you people. you're always fighting each other, trying to blow each other up." I'd bet we haven't seen the last of Rose and Bernard.

[Gogan]

Another interesting theory being thrown around is that Jacob == Aaron. Not so sure about that myself, but it does bring up the whole story with Claire, Christian, and Aaron which they really haven't addressed in a while. I forgot what Kate said last night about Aaron; I just remember it not meaning a whole lot to me at the time. The writers sure made a big deal about Aaron early on, so hopefully they have a worthwhile story for him to tie things up. Same with Walt.

[rursusferre]

Actually asano, I was about propose something, but a tad different. I was going to say what if aaron was the other guy. Jacob is the son of jack and Kate. I don't think the other guy gets a name. But, what if both of them work for dharma 30 years in the future, and through studying the island have learned a ton of scientific discoveries, ie smoke monster, granting people immortality (Richard) and destroying the world.

[Gogan]

Yeah, Aaron being the "Anti-Jacob" could make as much sense, if you want to go down that line of thinking. With all the references to Claire about not letting him be raised by another, perhaps Aaron was corrupted when Kate left him with his grandmother.

[Gogan]

Interesting interview with the writers from yesterday:

http://www.ew.com/ew/package/0,,1550612_20245764,00.html?bcpid=4396297001&bclid=9302206001&bctid=22714570001

Apparently S6 isn't going to be about time travel like S5 was. So I guess the nuke, whatever effect it's going to have, will end all the timeline bouncing.

[Lindorn]

"OH SNAP! What lies in the shadow of the statue! He just busted out some latin!! Guess we'll have to wait for the translation to learn what it means. Wow, Locke was in the box. Who is meeting with Jacob, indeed!"

I listened to a podcast today (www.jayandjack.com) and got a little more info on some things. Someone in the feedback section of the podcast said it was something like "He who leads us all" or something to that effect. Referring to Jacob.

I also believe that the anti-jacob you were talking about is the "alive" Locke at the end of the episode. Somehow, he (AJ) got resurrected as Locke maybe ? He seems to have all his memories as well though. Truly strange.

"I have a question for you." "I'm a Pisces." Lawl.

One of the bigger theories I've heard about is that the AJ is Jacob's brother. There is some old mythology with a story of Jacob and his bigger brother Esau. Esau had always wanted to kill his brother as he was jealous for most of his life. Jacob was the favorite. Maybe this has possible parallels in Lost. Another notable thing is the continuing theme of light and dark in Lost. Jacob was wearing white, while the other was wearing black.

One idea that I believe is the concept of whatever happened, happened. Jack (and Daniel) thinks he can change the future by blowing up Jughead, stopping the hatch from being built, button, plane, crash etc etc. This creates a paradox that, to my knowledge hasnt been addressed yet. If this happens, the crash wouldn't happen and the plane would land in LA. BUT, they wouldn't ever get to go to the island and go through all the events that lead up to them going back to use the bomb in the first place. Kind of confusing. I think, that whatever they do right now in 1977, always lead to the future events that they know. Even if they think that they are trying to change the future, they arn't. They are just living out the events that lead to them. You can change the events in the past, but you can't change your destiny. One possibility may be with Desmond, since Daniel said he was "special." Maybe the writers thought of a loop-hole for him to be able to change things. Could also be the same deal with AJ's loop-hole, whatever it was.

Yep. Great episode.

[Yooxra]

To many hints that Locke is the guy with Jacob at the start. Since the beginning of the show if you carefully watch it you will get that early on even before the end just cause if you follow the characters closely you can tell that Locke isn't Locke. Don't you guys remember before Locke dies, Locke tells Ben no i'm nothing like you, i don't use people to do things. This new Locke was obviously using Ben to do his dirty deed. We can get past this part.

I want to know about Richard. Richard reminds me of Phyzics. Richard says only one person can meet with Jacob but Locke strong arms him and Richard crumbles and lets him and Ben in. If Richard(Phyzics) only would of followed instructions Jacob wouldn't be dead right now. Killing me dude. But seriously it makes you wonder how Richard stays young and Jacob brings people back to life without something supernatural. Now that guy from the start is Locke, how can that be explained with science.

So the question is Richard never saw anyone brought back to life. But Jacob can bring people back to life obviously. Jacob rezs Locke with little use of mana, didn't even need to drink after, but the first time he comes back he is Locke. Locke dies the 2nd time and comes back as the so called "anti" as you guys are calling him or the brother. Just another thing that is alittle to supernatural.

I want to know about Richard, Jacob/other guy came to be, the island and if it's been there always and how it all started with all of them.

[rursusferre]

With all this time travel stuff, I wouldn't be surprised if the island became what it is in the future (where I think jacob is from). Also, Latin always sounds creepy.

[DijonQ]

So many questions. Here are my quick thoughts: I think that the losties can't change their fate on the island. But it seems logical that Jacob can see and arrange event to alter his future. That might be why interferred in the lives we saw in the season finale. I think that Jacob could see his own death and has set up a play to put events in his favor after he dies. Thus making the losties "tools" to shape his own future.

I've thought for a while that the Oceanic 6 have been on the island for the entire time. And I think that they have hid out in preparation for the death of Jacob. I mean...they cant have killed off Jack, Kate, Sawyer and the rest. And it would seem silly to have them off of the island in the season finale.

It'll be fun to watch the final season and hope that we get most of the questions answered.

P.S. Where's Walt?

[Lindorn]

" P.S. Where's Walt? "

I think he is still in New York. From when John went and saw him.

[Gogan]

I've been annoyed with how they've handled Walt since S1&2. They made such a big deal about him, with the others even claiming how special he is, subjecting him to tests, etc. Then they just let him go, with nary a word about what happened. In subsequent seasons, he returns in the form of creepy visions to Shannon and Locke. But again, no explanations of why Walt.

I'll be pretty disappointed if they don't wrap up his story in the end.

[rursusferre]

I 100% agree the walt thing was just kinda side lined. Kind of dead ended. Also, something is up with the giant statue. We have yet to see it from the front, and from the back something isn't right. The head is really blocky to be Anubis, so I think there is gong to be some surprise with that.

[Gogan]

The general consensus, I think, is that the status is of the egyptian god Sobek (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sobek). Not only do the pictures of Sobek look pretty spot on with what we see in the show, but the legend behind him seems to fit as well:

The god Sobek, which was depicted as a crocodile or a man with the head of a crocodile. In some Egyptian creation myths, it was Sobek who first came out of the waters of chaos to create the world. As a creator god, he was occasionally linked with the sun god Ra.
...
Sobek's ambiguous nature led some Egyptians to believe that he was a repairer of evil that had been done, rather than a force for good in itself, for example, going to Duat to restore damage done to the dead as a result of their form of death. He was also said to call on suitable gods and goddesses required for protecting people in situation, effectively having a more distant role, nudging things along, rather than taking an active part.
...
He was also shown with an ankh, representing his ability to undo evil and so cure ills.

[rursusferre]

That would seem pretty spot on. Now the real question is what's with the Egyptian theme.

[Gogan]

Apparently the statue is not of Sobek, but of Taweret, the Egyptian Goddess of birth, rebirth and the northern sky. It's been confirmed (http://abc.go.com/primetime/lost/index?pn=recap#t=162212&d=201648) by both ABC and JJ Abrams:

http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Taweret

I still think it looks more like Sobek though.

[rursusferre]

ah, asano. My girlfriend and i were just having this discussion about which it looks like more. Nice.