(*Lost*)

[Yooxra]

Time to put the band back together. Get ready friends.

http://beta.images.theglobeandmail.com/archive/00459/lost_main_group__459582gm-a.jpg

(The talk thread, preemptive thread for S6)

http://www.lostseason6.com/

[Yooxra]

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0411008/episodes#season-6

Lost Season 6 Episode List

Episode 1: LAX
Episode 2: LAX (2)
Episode 3: What Kate Does
Episode 4: The Substitute
Episode 5: Lighthouse
Episode 6: Sundown
Episode 7: Dr. Linus
Episode 8: Recon
Episode 9: Ab Aeterno
Episode 10: The Package
Episode 11: Happily Ever After
Episode 12: Everybody Loves Hugo

Looks like 12 then a break before the other 6

18 Total.

[Gogan]

WTF, didn't they say the last season would air all of its episodes without interruption? Damnit.

On another note, I really hope they don't waste too much time before picking up right where they left off at the end of last season. I want to see more of Jacob and Anti-Jacob, as well as more of Locke's encounter with Jacob in the foot statue!

[Onion]

Well that wasn't Locke it was Anti Jacob in the statue, they put out like a big summary show. Hopefully with that they don't need to do any summary bullshit.

[Sly]

I hope they kill off the blond doctor bitch who's name I can't remember right now. The fucking smirk on her face all the time makes me want to scoop my eyes out of my head with a spoon.

[Yooxra]

I hope they kill off the blond doctor bitch who's name I can't remember right now. The fucking smirk on her face all the time makes me want to scoop my eyes out of my head with a spoon.

Juliet, she died at the end of S5!

[Sly]

did she? I don't even remember it was so long ago.

[Gogan]

She's supposed to come back for a few episodes -- flashbacks I guess. I actually liked her though.

[Gogan]

Apparently this sneak preview was released to Facebook this weekend. Pretty sweet if you haven't already seen it:

http://www.hulu.com/watch/125011/lost-preview-questions?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+HuluPopularVideosToday+%28Hul u+-+Popular+videos+today%29#http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hulu.com %2Ffeed%2Fpopular%2Fvideos%2Ftoday%3Frd%3D0

[Sly]

my nips just got hard

[Yooxra]

BEGIN

Where it left off S5.

Anti-Jacob(Jacob's nemesis) found a loop-hole to become John Locke(which still doesn't make sense due to Locke being a corpse), uses Ben to kill Jacob for him.

They go with Faraday's plan to blow up the hatch with the hydrogen bomb to stop the plane from ever crashing on the island. Which they suceed to do, resulting in Juliet's demise.

*

Before you read this part *Huge spoiler* so watch the first episode before reading.

So three different periods going on, them back on the plane(one), them on the island with the swan hatch blown up(two), the ones that were in the present period still playing that out with Jacob just dying(three). Doesn't seem like a travel through time thing. The whole plane thing makes no sense since period (two) and (three) seem to be the same time period.

(Period one, on the plane)Woah! So Jack was right(or was he?) it looks like about detonating the bomb and stoping the crash from ever happening. Desmond on the plane! So it looks like none of them remember each other or what happened. The island is underwater! They land in LA safely. Plot goes on.

(Period two, on the island)Looks like Jack was wrong(or was he?) about detonating the bomb. So weird. So how are they on the plane but also on the island. Looks like Juliet might be alive. Oh looky Jacob wants to talk to Hugo, but he's a island ghost. They are now at the temple

(Period three, in the present)Jacob still dead. Anti-Jacob is the black smoke! Richard knows anti-Jacob.

So Jacob is trying to keep the survivors alive on the island or else something bad is going to happen. Now that Jacob is dead there is no stopping anti-Jacob from getting to them? The magic dust on the ground says otherwise!

So no wonder Hugo had so much good luck, that peace sign in his guitar case. I need one of those.

Anti-Jacob wants to get home, where is home Iowa? Maybe hell? Lol. I'm very interested in knowing this asap! I would like to know where Jacob/Anti-Jacob are originally from.

I have a better question, is Sayid Sayid and the water saved him? or is Sayid Jacob?

So how does this loop-hole work that anti-Jacob is exploiting and using John's body. Will John ever be alive as himself again?

Great episode. It wouldn't be lost without questions.

[Sly]

more like how are they on the island in the present but never crashed in 2003?

[Vayd]

Dude parallel universe sly jesus get yourself in the game retard

[Sly]

hey gayd how about you go suck your little haji boyfriends dick

[rursusferre]

I was thinking that sayid might be jacob, also. glad to see my original hunch of anti-jacob being the smoke monster confirmed.

[Onion]

(Before I start, we really need a better name for Anti-Jacob/Smoke Monster because it's annoying. Can we call him Nemesis?)

Anyways...

I was thinking that sayid might be jacob, also. glad to see my original hunch of anti-jacob being the smoke monster confirmed.

Yeah that's what I was thinking, that he copied what the smoke monster/Anti-Jacob did with Locke and planned to take Sayid's body knowing he would die. But there's only one body so that theory has some holes.

What was with the comment about Richard being in chains? We've thrown around ideas for a long time about Richard being one of the crew members from the Blackrock (wasn't that the name of the boat in the jungle?). Maybe he was a prisoner on the ship and Jacob showed mercy and granted him stewardship over the island or something. Or maybe, (this is a little out there), Richard is a former slave that built the temple. We all know about the numerous hieroglyphics all over the place in the temple and in that statue, maybe that's what Anti-Jacob meant.

About Anti-Jacob's home, I think it's the temple. Remember when the french team was with Jin and they were attacked? The smoke monster came out of that hole in the wall where Hurley/Jack/Jin/Kate just went into the ground to get to the temple. Maybe he wasn't allowed to disturb the people living in the temple while Jacob was alive because he stopped him or something. Also, remember Ben's experience being engulfed by the smoke monster, seeing Alex and all that, that all happened under the temple. Seems to me like the temple was built for the smoke monster.

About the spring being all dark colored, I think that was caused by Jacob dying, that he was the source of the healing in the spring. That's what that crazy azn was doing when he cut his hand, he was seeing if it would heal.

Just some preliminary thoughts. Fucking awesome start to the season, I'm really stoked.

Can't wait for Asano's post.

[Yooxra]

About the spring being all dark colored, I think that was caused by Jacob dying, that he was the source of the healing in the spring. That's what that crazy azn was doing when he cut his hand, he was seeing if it would heal.

Just some preliminary thoughts. Fucking awesome start to the season, I'm really stoked.

Can't wait for Asano's post.

Jacob had to be the reason for the healing. Also don't you remember the lucky charm he gave Hugo. He must have some sort of powers for "good" i guess you can call it.

[Onion]

I thought it was interesting that in the alternate universe that Huge has nothing but good luck, so obviously the bomb going off (or whatever caused the island being under water) changed a lot more than just them not crashing.

[Tenzo]

So, I don't get it. Did they get lost again for the 6th time?

[rursusferre]

Also, pretty sure that Jacob dying in the fire, and all the ashes being spread to stop the smoke monster are related. The question is, they have been spreading ashes since the begining of the show (it was around the cottage). Obviously i think they are jacob's ashes.

[rursusferre]

Also, I dont think Richard built the temple. But I would assume he was probably a prisoner on the ship. Would make sense. People coming to the island and making something different of their lives is a prevelant thing on the show.

[rursusferre]

I think a bigger issue that for almost the entire series length has been kind of side lined with the million other side stories going on: why the fuck is jack important.

[Vayd]

I thought it was interesting that in the alternate universe that Huge has nothing but good luck, so obviously the bomb going off (or whatever caused the island being under water) changed a lot more than just them not crashing.

NO SHIT DUDE. god, you god damn noobs. you guys shouldn't be watching lost, you can't handle it.

[rursusferre]

Are you even allowed to watch television? Besides being 14, doesn't Allah ban that shit or something?

[Vayd]

Are you even allowed to watch television? Besides being 14, doesn't Allah ban that shit or something?

Hey, cool signature, bro. Let me ask you something. Did your plan to have cybersex with Tina work?

[rursusferre]

Yes.

[Vayd]

Proof.

[Tenzo]

Eww.

[Onion]

New Ep!

OMG MAC FROM IT'S ALWAYS SUNNY IS ON LOST!!! I guess I never noticed before, cuz he says he was in that episode with the cages.

Something keeps bugging me about the "Temple Others", how come they're separate from the Ben/Richard/Locke Others?

Claire + Kate lesbian couple in alternate universe?

Pretty frustrating episode, felt like nothing happened. Really wanted to see more about Richard and Nemesis Locke.

[Gogan]

Pretty frustrating episode, felt like nothing happened. Really wanted to see more about Richard and Nemesis Locke.

Yeah. Tonight was a real snoozefest imo. Don't think the story was advanced at all. Could've completely skipped the episode and not missed out on anything.

The last 5 seconds were a bit of a shocker. But guess we'll have to wait till next week for any answers. I had forgotten Claire was Jack's (half-) sister.

Also, one of the "others" with Kate and Jin said Russou had been dead for 3 years. Guessing that'll prove significant at some point.

[Sly]

uneventful episode except ethan being claire's doctor, what the fuck is that?

[Onion]

Doctor Goodspeed! Love that name, reminds me of Nicholas Cage in The Rock, great movie.

But yeah, Asano, makes me wonder about what the asian dude said, does that mean Claire died? Because I don't think anything special happened to Sayid other than the stuff in the temple. That also begs the question though, why would Jacob tell them to save Sayid if it would turn out to be a bad thing. Maybe Jacob didn't know what would happen, but it seems to me like he did and that this "infection" isn't necesarily all bad.

Also, one of the "others" with Kate and Jin said Russou had been dead for 3 years. Guessing that'll prove significant at some point.

I thought she died when those commando guys shot her in the forest when she was going somewhere with Alex? It's been 3 years since they left the island and returned. Maybe that's what it meant? Although I don't know why they think it's important to keep that on the down low, maybe they just don't like sharing information at all.

[Gogan]

But yeah, Asano, makes me wonder about what the asian dude said, does that mean Claire died? Because I don't think anything special happened to Sayid other than the stuff in the temple. That also begs the question though, why would Jacob tell them to save Sayid if it would turn out to be a bad thing. Maybe Jacob didn't know what would happen, but it seems to me like he did and that this "infection" isn't necesarily all bad.

Yeah, I dunno. I guess that means Claire died at some point, got taken to the temple to be "saved", got "infected" and somehow escaped the others, and now lives like Russou did. Makes me wonder whether the same thing happened to Russou at some point as well, or the rest of her team. Remember how she always said the rest of her team got sick? And with Claire looking/acting just like Russou, maybe Russou was sick as well. It's been a while since I saw the episodes that focused on that story, so I might be mistaken again. Obviously there's some link between this sickness and the man in black.

What about Ben? Remember as a boy he was shot and taken to the temple, and Richard said that if they helped him, Ben would never be the same. He would lose his innocence, or something like that? Maybe there's some connection there as well.

I thought she died when those commando guys shot her in the forest when she was going somewhere with Alex? It's been 3 years since they left the island and returned. Maybe that's what it meant? Although I don't know why they think it's important to keep that on the down low, maybe they just don't like sharing information at all.

Oh wow, you're right. I totally forgot about that scene. I really need to rewatch everything again.

[Gogan]

Doctor Goodspeed! Love that name, reminds me of Nicholas Cage in The Rock, great movie.

Yeah, I loved that they showed Ethan like that. Goes to show you more than the Losties were affected by the nuke. I'm still not sure how they're going to tie in the two timelines. I'm assuming at this point that timeline is showing us what would've happened if the Oceanic 815 didn't crash (and who knows what else before that) on the island, which we'll learn (ala Butterfly Effect) that everything else going very far back changed as well.

Yeah, I dunno. I guess that means Claire died at some point, got taken to the temple to be "saved", got "infected" and somehow escaped the others, and now lives like Russou did. Makes me wonder whether the same thing happened to Russou at some point as well, or the rest of her team. Remember how she always said the rest of her team got sick? And with Claire looking/acting just like Russou, maybe Russou was sick as well. It's been a while since I saw the episodes that focused on that story, so I might be mistaken again. Obviously there's some link between this sickness and the man in black.

What about Ben? Remember as a boy he was shot and taken to the temple, and Richard said that if they helped him, Ben would never be the same. He would lose his innocence, or something like that? Maybe there's some connection there as well.



Oh wow, you're right. I totally forgot about that scene. I really need to rewatch everything again.

[Yooxra]

Yeah, I dunno. I guess that means Claire died at some point, got taken to the temple to be "saved", got "infected" and somehow escaped the others, and now lives like Russou did. Makes me wonder whether the same thing happened to Russou at some point as well, or the rest of her team. Remember how she always said the rest of her team got sick? And with Claire looking/acting just like Russou, maybe Russou was sick as well. It's been a while since I saw the episodes that focused on that story, so I might be mistaken again. Obviously there's some link between this sickness and the man in black.

What about Ben? Remember as a boy he was shot and taken to the temple, and Richard said that if they helped him, Ben would never be the same. He would lose his innocence, or something like that? Maybe there's some connection there as well.



Oh wow, you're right. I totally forgot about that scene. I really need to rewatch everything again.

Haven't seen an uneventful episode as this one in a long time but it's a good point about Ben and losing his innocence, that he would never be the same. Makes you wonder about the rest and the whole thing all together.

1) So the temple was meant to heal people so they don't die or was it?(while Jacob was alive)? But if this is true the whole Ben losing his innocence thing doesn't make sense.

2) They tryed to save Sayid or did they? By using the water to heal him(they didn't know Jacob was dead at this point still btw, but the water wasn't clear so they knew something was wrong)? Or did they just simply kill him and have him revive(undead lol?) Just to want to poison him? This doesn't seem to have a clear path at all.

[DijonQ]

THE TIME FOR QUESTIONS IS OVER!!!!!!



...bullshit

[Nucholza]

So I've watched from Season 1 up til where it currently is in the past 8 days >.> (amazing how much extra time there is when you aren't playing WoW).

So many things to comment on...

First off I'm not really convinced that Ethan is "good" now. I wouldn't be surprised if he was simply at the hospital to steal claire's baby. Maybe that woman that was supposed to adopt the baby was an other and it was a whole set up. Remember that one episode when Locke is in the crash and is taken to the same hospital that Jack worked at and Locke said it must have been his destiny and Jack's reply is that it was simply probability due to where the crash occured - maybe Ethan was just there waiting for Claire because they set it up for her to inevitably end up at the hospital. They could have slipped her a drug on the plane or some other point to induce labor.

On the whole Sayid thing - I don't think Jacob intended for what happened to happen. They first attempted to save Sayid in the water and they were certain they had failed. I don't think the temple others knew Sayid would come back to life and that's why they immediately tested him for infection because they knew the implications of him returning to life like that. The infection has to be something the smoke monster does to either do things for him or simply to cause chaos. I immediately thought that it wasn't Sayid, the way he spoke and how much of a pussy he was being from the torture and even afterwards just didn't seem like him.

On Claire - I don't think she was ever taken to the Temple. The episode she disappeared it showed her just getting up in the middle of the night and leaving. To me this suggests she was already infected and my guess is she was called by the smoke monster to do something for it or she just went bat shit crazy and went off to fuck a tree or something

What I think Richard meant when he said taking Ben to the temple would cause him to lose his innocence is just that Richard knew Ben would become a leader of the others and living with the others would cause Ben to grow into the deceitful and lying man he is now without the fear and constant harassment his Father provided.

Here are some questions I have, some unimportant but just stuff I noticed from practically watching the show back to back:

- I don't understand what the deal is with Kate and her mom. Early on there is the episode where she's on the run, but the feds don't know where she is. She's with that cop (the captain from Firefly) and she marries him. On her wedding day she's with her mom and her mom gives her a necklace that belonged to her grandmother. In this episode her mom is friends with her and all seems fine and dandy and we know she's on the run and already killed her stepfather. Now every subsequent episode her mom wants nothing to do with her and even turns her in at one point.

- Why the fuck does the Dharma Initiative keep dropping food and supplies on the island years after they've abandoned the place? There was that huge food drop in Season 2 I think where right before it drops Hugo and that crazy chick that liked him decided to destroy all the food Hugo hoarded for himself. Maybe I missed something but didn't they make it pretty clear the D.I. was no longer on the island? and even if they had some reason to do it - how did they know how to find the Island when people like Whitmore have so much trouble? Furthermore who the fuck is behind the D.I. they have a base in Ann Arbor or something like that...so who started the whole D.I. or is that not important.

- What was the point of the Swan station exactly? That never made sense to me...why not just automate the button and why not just use the failsafe so the damn button wouldn't even need pressing?

- There was a scene in I don't know what season, where Ben's dad (Roger) forgot Ben's b-day...again. To make it up to Ben, Roger drives them out to come cliff or something to talk and Ben kills his father (Sawyer and others later find the van with Roger in it etc). But when they travel to the past Ben is taken to the others never to return so wouldn't that be where the past and the present stopped being one and not the hydrogen bomb?

So much other crap but can't think of it right now, there's just too much crap to compile, heh.

[Yooxra]

THE TIME FOR QUESTIONS IS OVER!!!!!!



...bullshit

It wouldn't be lost if we weren't lost hah.

Welcome to the party Nuch.

[Nucholza]

I didn't really start liking it til after the third season. But its pretty good now and this last season should be great unless they fuck it up royally.

[Sly]

To Nuch

before anyone reads this let it be known I just watch the episodes, I don't read the official site or try to figure it all out before it happens. I just enjoy the twists. so fuck you vayd in advance.

The whole reason the others wanted Aaron in the first place was to study the fact that babies aren't born on the island or are fucked up so if he's born not on the island there's no reason for Ethan to steal him.

The infection the temple others are talking about could very well be that they realize he could be the reincarnation of Jacob, why they would want him dead I'm not sure.

Kate gets married before she kills her step-father I believe.

The rest I don't know but they're probably just stories that they put in to continue the over all story and then dead-ended. The same way they killed the Walt story, if the people from 815 were never meant to leave then why is he untouched and not have to go back? Because he aged beyond what was needed for the story so they killed it.

[Gogan]

The whole reason the others wanted Aaron in the first place was to study the fact that babies aren't born on the island or are fucked up so if he's born not on the island there's no reason for Ethan to steal him.

I'd be disappointed if that's all there was to it. They made a big deal about aaron early on when Claire went to see the psychic. Made us think there would be something special about aaron -- kinda like with Walt.

[DijonQ]

I haven't been binging on Lost seasons, but I think that the necklace belongs to Kate's prospective mother in-law? And she feels guilty about the whole thing and leaves the gifted necklace behind.

I can't quite explain why, but I feel like I'm looking down the barrel of the disappointment shotgun. I really don't know how they are going to tie up most (they can't possibly do all) of the loose ends. They would have to have an entire episode that's pretty much Q&A (think Matrix 2 where he talks to the controller) to get everything straightened out.

I have this terrible feeling that the last scene of the series is going to have all of the survivors of flight 815 in some giant hospital/lab where all of these things scenarios are just playing out in their subconscious minds as a giant destiny/morality experiment conducted by the Dharma Initiative.

/frustrated

[Nucholza]

Well, Aaron could be a prospective next gen leader and that's why Ethan is there to get him. I don't think they wanted him because of the mothers dying thing since Claire didn't get pregnant on the island, right?

I'll have to rewatch the episode where Kate gets married - you're probably right and that was the step-mother, but she was def. on the run and had killed her stepfather already.

I'll be VERY suprised if Sayid is Jacob incarnate. That just doesn't make sense to me, but I guess it could end up being some huge twist. Its all a bit too confusing with how the temple others seem to be aligned with Jacob and want to protect the Oceanic-6 yet the smoke monster lives underneath the temple. The biggest part that I don't get is how they said if Sayid were to die they'd be in big trouble and they failed to save him so how could that be Jacob if the whole reason they tried to save Sayid was because Jacob said to? Only thing I can really see is that Sayid didn't really die, but I guess if he DID die it must be either A) An underling or part of the smoke monster B) Jacob C) something the infection does to recently deceased people D) something yet to be revealed. Ben said to Sun that dead is dead when she asked about Locke being alive so no way Sayid is still in there somewhere if he did actually die. blah blah blah

And yeah I kinda have the same hunch DQ that everyone will be very pissed at the end

[Nucholza]

The same way they killed the Walt story, if the people from 815 were never meant to leave then why is he untouched and not have to go back? Because he aged beyond what was needed for the story so they killed it.

I don't think its that the Oceanic 815 weren't supposed to leave, just specifically the Oceanic-6 weren't supposed to leave. I suspect a big part of the storyline will have to do with Aaron needing to return to the island and maybe he saves claire.

[Orlandin]

Still think this whole thing has to do with the war between Jacob (white/free will) and the man in black[MIB]/smokey (black/fate) and with our main characters stuck right in the middle of their war.

We've kinda already seen chars take sides, with Locke relenting to his fate that he was supposed to be dead and having MIB take over his body. I'm guessing Jack would be on Jacobs side with how he is now that things can change if he does something like blow up a bomb.

I'm also bit confused with the recent events of Sayid like Nuch. Why would Jacob send Hurley and his guitar case with a note in it to revive Sayid only to have him come back "infected"? I'm do think the temple people are on Jacobs side because their bound to the whole choice thing as they can't kill Sayid without him choosing to eat the poison pill. Strange that Smokey lived there as well though..doesn't add up.

In any case will be interesting to see who our losties end up helping, could vary by character. My theory still goes on that these characters are all variables and pieces in the game their playing and we're going to see who wins by the end of this show which will explain why all the chars were brought there in the first place.

[rursusferre]

At first I thought Sayid would be Jacob, but I don't think so anymore.

My theory: the smoke monster/man in black is Aaron. Jacob is the child of some of the other characters on the show, possibly jack and kate? Their remaining on the island turns into them having a child, being Jacob. For some reason, somehow the world ends in the not so distant future, but the island is not destroyed, because it exists slightly outside of time, or like, right as everything is destroyed, the island is sent back into time, as sort of a "life boat". As we have learned before, for whatever reason that i can't remember, the farther you travel from the future or whatever, the less you age (something like that). Richard is a good example. Having been on the island for so long, and existing so fucked up from his original time, he hasn't aged. Jacob and Smokey (aaron maybe?) are from basically the end of time, but are "rewound" hundreds, if not thousands of years into their past, making they literally immortal (being so far from their own time, and unable to die for whatever reasoning the show uses). Their original point in doing this? Manipulate things through time to hopefully prevent whatever future calamity. Remember when they were watching the BlackRock coming a shore? Something like "here they come, blah blah, they always bring trouble, blah blah" and Jacob says something about progress being better than the end or something (fuzzy memory on the exact quote). Jacob and Smokey may have had to live this over and over attempting to fix the end of time event, but failing. Smokey is sick of it though, and is tired of this endless cycle. I don't know, I am probably talking out of my ass.

[Onion]

"It only ends once, everything else is just progress" something like that Rufus

I have no idea who Jacob and Smokey are, but the idea that they have been here before etc etc seems to keep coming up. Except this time Jacob died.

I've always wondered if they were ever going to explain Walt, remember how he kind of appeared places and then was gone, I think that was more some sort of special ability not just the Other's ability to disappear unseen.

Also, Nuch, the DI keeps sending care packages because of the Swan, that guy that Desmond took over for was a part of the DI. They knew that they had to keep doing that or something bad would happen. Also, don't they mention somewhere why it wasn't automated?

[Nucholza]

See I kinda understand that line of thought Onion, but what I don't understand about that is then why did Desmonde NEVER exit the Swan and notice that there's all these new people on the island? They were there for something like 50 days I think before finding the Swan hatch and in all that time Desmonde never left the Swan at all and we know he's left before from the flashbacks with that other dude that was always leaving and made Desmonde stay behind.

I'm somewhat in the same line of thought that you are rufus, but I don't buy that the smoke monster is Aaron, but who knows could end up being right. I think Aaron might be the one who can kill the smoke monster, though. It seems to me that Jacob continually "brings" people to the island (the black rock, the french people with Russou, Oceanic 815) in an attempt to stop history from repeating itself. Which implies the island itself is caught in a time loop and Jacob/Smoke are the only constants on the islands. Its almost like a chess game that they're playing out over and over in attempt to find a way to stop it, which the smoke monster has finally figured out. My guess is that the chain of events he's started will cause the end of the world like you said, though.

What I"d like to know is if the smoke monster can leave the island like Jacob can. I don't think he can. I'm really not sure on all of this, but if I HAD to make a guess, its that Jacob really is watching over and protecting the island and the others have been the real good guys all along doing whatever it took to protect the island. Now the smoke monster has found away to circumvent Jacob's protection and will cause w/e destruction etc.

This is all a little hard to put into words so its all long and convoluted and I'm too lazy to make it nice and coherent.

[Nucholza]

I've always wondered if they were ever going to explain Walt, remember how he kind of appeared places and then was gone, I think that was more some sort of special ability not just the Other's ability to disappear unseen.
?

I don't think that it was actually Walt, but as always they could go that way. There's a lot of times people show up that shouldn't be there like Walt does (Christian for example). I think that's one of the only things the smoke monster can do to manipulate people, but then again it could be Jacob as well.

[DijonQ]

just got home from the bar...grain of salt...

It's pretty clear to me that Smokey can take the form and act as people who arrive on the island dead. The first I remember is Echo's brother who landed dead on the island fucking with Echo. Next we see Christian, who also landed dead and finally we see the, "loop hole," when he uses Locke to convince Ben to kill Jacob. This leads me to believe that in a future episode Hugo will see the smoke monster for what he is (since he really does 6th sense it) when Smokey is trying to trick the losties. I'm sure this is where the fat boy dies.

Another interesting thought is something that I saw on one of the recap shows that has the little blurbs that pop out on the bottom of the screen. In this version of last season's finale they make a big deal that Jacob touches some of the survivors (Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Locke for sure) their flashbacks. They pointed out this touching multiple times. Lost is Lost, but this touch really seems to me like some type of future protection against Smokey, I bet we see Locke/Smokey unable to attack those that were touched. A past episode example of this would be in the episode where Echo died Smokey then turned on Locke, but mysteriously didn't fuck with him.

I can't really agree with all the Aaron/Walt back-stories playing in to the show's conclusion. It just fits in with my, "can't tie it all together," theory. The writers are in over their collective head's now and can't finish THIS seasons story lines much-less the entire series'.

I'm spent.

[Nucholza]

Eh, I guess Jacob could have put some protection on them, but I'd have to say it isn't against smokey, but more likely just from dying before they could help him protect the island from smokey. Also, the temple others said a couple times that they needed to stay in the temple and trust them because they would protect them.

I think a better answer for why smokey killed Echo and not Locke is that smokey knew he needed Locke to kill Jacob later. He only killed the people he needed to in order to get the losties on the right "destiny"

[rursusferre]

I definitely hope this isn't a BSG ending though. They CLAIM they have had the show written since the begining, unlike BSG which was cut early. I hope their isn't this really rapid explaination in a few episodes where all the characters basically just spell everything out. I have faith it will be better than that, but god damn, get the ball moving, this is not the time to start new shit. WRAP IT UP B!

[Gogan]

It's pretty clear to me that Smokey can take the form and act as people who arrive on the island dead.

Interesting idea. Seems to be true so far. Does that mean we could also see Smokey take the form of Jacob, now that he's dead? Is it possible that the Jacob that appeared to Hurley telling him to take Sayid to the temple was actually Smokey incognito? I don't necessarily think that's the case, but it would be an interesting twist.

I can't really agree with all the Aaron/Walt back-stories playing in to the show's conclusion. It just fits in with my, "can't tie it all together," theory. The writers are in over their collective head's now and can't finish THIS seasons story lines much-less the entire series'.

Agreed. I expect there will be a lot of minor loose ends we won't see wrapped up. Apparently Damon and Carlton have even said they have no current plans on bringing Walt back in the final season. They could still address that story arc without him though, I suppose.

[Sly]

you guys are crazy

[Nucholza]

Is Christian actually dead? I don't think they've ever really shown him dead in a flashback before have they? From what I remember all the flashbacks are only Jack referencing that his father died in Australia and the last thing I remember from the flashbacks where Christian was alive was him getting out of the car with someone I can't remember who that he met at a bar or something and had come with him for protection or something I can't really remember.

In the flashes where the plan lands they said his father was never loaded onto the plane and they have no idea where the body is - is that something new in this timeline where they never went to the island or was it like that from the start? I'm fairly certain his coffin was never found in the original wreckage.

[Onion]

The only thing I don't buy about smokey taking over dead bodies is that if he can do it to anyone, why are there two Lockes and not two Christians etc

[Gogan]

Is Christian actually dead? I don't think they've ever really shown him dead in a flashback before have they? From what I remember all the flashbacks are only Jack referencing that his father died in Australia and the last thing I remember from the flashbacks where Christian was alive was him getting out of the car with someone I can't remember who that he met at a bar or something and had come with him for protection or something I can't really remember.

I can't remember when this was, but I have a memory of Jack going to a morgue or some place and identifying Christian's body. They actually showed Christian's dead body.

In the flashes where the plan lands they said his father was never loaded onto the plane and they have no idea where the body is - is that something new in this timeline where they never went to the island or was it like that from the start? I'm fairly certain his coffin was never found in the original wreckage.

That's new to that timeline. Early on, maybe S1 or S2, they find his coffin on the island. When Jack opens it up, it was empty. So it was definitely loaded on the plane in the original timeline. Hence why they take Locke's body on the Ajira flight during their return to the island.

[Gogan]

The only thing I don't buy about smokey taking over dead bodies is that if he can do it to anyone, why are there two Lockes and not two Christians etc

Are we sure the Christian images were Smokey in disguise? I'm still not sure which side Christian is supposed to be on. I kinda thought he was somehow a good guy, working with Jacob. I have to believe the show will end with some kind of reconciliation between Jack and his father, and I don't see that happening if Christian is a bad guy.

[Yooxra]

Are we sure the Christian images were Smokey in disguise? I'm still not sure which side Christian is supposed to be on. I kinda thought he was somehow a good guy, working with Jacob. I have to believe the show will end with some kind of reconciliation between Jack and his father, and I don't see that happening if Christian is a bad guy.

I hope this means Daniel Faraday comes back as a bad guy.

[Onion]

That's what I mean Asano, I don't think anyone other than Locke was taken over by Smokey.

[Vayd]

Uhhhhh, why would smokey even want to take over Christian's body? The whole reason he took over Locke was because the others trusted Locke. Also, maybe he can't PHYSICALLY (but can allusively) take over Christian's body because Locke is deeply related to the island (became the others leaders, visited the temple, etc.). The latter is less likely. STUPID ONION

[Vayd]

Really, the whole reason he took on Locke was to manipulate Ben to kill Jacob. (that's the loop hole smokey talks about when you see him talking to jacob in the 18th century--when the boat is coming). I don't think Ben would listen to Christian.

[Vayd]

Once again, Onion--YOU STUPID NOOB.

We should probably play that game I made you buy, fyi.

[Onion]

I just said that I didn't think Smokey took over anyone's body but Locke due to the fact that there haven't been any corpses found with someone alive and walking about, wtf are you blabbering about?

[Vayd]

stupid THEEREe

[DijonQ]

Christian is dead pre-flight 815. Echo's brother was dead before coming to the island. Thus the theory is that the smoke moster can act as those that we're dead before coming to the island....like Locke. Not all of the other 100 people that died on the island.

Who knows why smokey would appear as Christian to convince Claire to do things. We've seen Claire fo 5 mins in like 20 episodes. I bet it all plays out.

[Cruci]

Christian is dead pre-flight 815. Echo's brother was dead before coming to the island. Thus the theory is that the smoke moster can act as those that we're dead before coming to the island....like Locke. Not all of the other 100 people that died on the island.

Who knows why smokey would appear as Christian to convince Claire to do things. We've seen Claire fo 5 mins in like 20 episodes. I bet it all plays out.

Christian didn't just appear to Claire if I remember correctly. I sort of figured he took on the Christian form in order to provide some tangible proof of Jacob and a supernatural presence on the island. Without the form of Christian I don't think John becomes as fanatical as he does, changing the plot line completely.

[rursusferre]

still kinda of a softball episode.

Obvious stuff: the kid=jacob, that horrible scale metaphor, the numbers thing was a little forced

Other things: Kate is not on that list, so i don't know her deal. Did he touch kate as a girl (obvious joke here).

[Sly]

was kate actually not on the list or did they just not show her?

[rursusferre]

he said something like 5 canidates or whatever and then read the names off. I did find it interesting that he said he didnt know if it was jin or son. Wonder who dies.

[Sly]

gunna be interesting to see if or how smokey gets off the island and what would happen if he does.

[Nucholza]

I don't remember if Jacob ever touched Kate, but didn't he visit her like the others - they showed her as a kid in some store stealing a lunchbox and she gets caught and doesn't Jacob offer to pay for it so the store owner wouldn't call the cops? Or maybe that wasn't Jacob but I think it was. Maybe when he said 5 candidates he was already not counting Locke since he's dead.

I feel like they keep adding more questions than answering them - especially with the timeline where the plane didn't crash and Ben being a teacher at the school Locke was subbing at.

Maybe Smokey has to sacrifice Sawyer somehow in order to leave the island? The kid, little-Jacob(?), pointed out to Smokey that he couldn't kill him. I wonder if it was supposed to just be funny or if it meant something when Smokey got all pissed off saying "don't tell me what I can't do" just like Locke.

Maybe I missed or something or I'm not seeing the obvious but what were the numbers next to their names on the wall?

[Sly]

you're right about kate nuch.

the other timeline is to show how their lives are connected even without the island. If the bomb blew up then ben would of never stayed on the island so he now lives a normal life as an asshole teacher.

the kid could be a neutral in the battle between jacob and smokey? and now that jacob's maybe dead smokey feels hes won, hence him throwing the white stone out to sea.


I'm guessing jacob touched everyone on 815 at some point in their lives and as he did he just simply numbered them in order of when he did, but I didn't pay close attention to the number in relationship to the age of when they were touched.

[Onion]

Theory about the "caretaker candidates." Maybe Smokey needs one to either come with him, or as Nuch said, be sacrificed in order for him to leave. Maybe if he leaves, the island somehow ceases to exist, it would explain his disdain for Jacob, perhaps the true caretaker has to allow him to leave, and Jacob didn't let him go.

I don't get why that chick on the beach, (Ilena, Alana? w/e), said Smokey is recruiting, that throws a wrench in the whole killing Sawyer thing if he's recruiting.

What's with the abundance of ash? If some was just created by Jacob burning, where did the other ash come from? Suggests that either Jacob has died before and burned and that's where it's from, or it's from previous caretakers being burned and just built up over time or something.

That little kid is weird, I can't help but keep going back in my head to wondering where all of the Egyptian hieroglyphics tie in to the whole story. Maybe they're lower gods that were cursed to walk the earth and trapped on the island to protect man? But this kind of shatters the possibility of multiple caretakers, if Jacob was some sort of a god.

I'm not sure what the little kid meant you can't kill "him." Maybe he meant Richard? Seems more like he meant Sawyer though.

Oh and I couldn't help but laugh my ass off when I heard Ben bitching about the coffee in the teacher's lounge.

More important than anything, it seems like Richard knows exactly what's going on. As if he either was warned about such things by Jacob, or he has experienced the chain of events before.

Also, you all need to watch this clip from The Soup: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRJvaQuCh5c

[Gogan]

All good questions, Nuch and Onion. I'm really surprised they're moving so slowly with the story. Seems like they have a lot to wrap up, and all they're really doing is creating more questions each episode.

The parallel timeline: there has to be more to it then simply showing us a "what if" scenario. I mean, who cares? It has to have some deeper meaning, or some kind of connection to what's currently going on on the island.

I was really perplexed when Locke shouted at boy-Jacob, "don't tell me what I can't do!" That was a very Locke-like thing to say -- not Smokey at all. Why would he say that? They played it up all episode long in the alternate timeline too, so I have to imagine there's something important there. Has there always been some long-standing connection between Smokey and Locke? They almost make it seem like Locke and Smokey are the same person -- always have been. I can't quite fit all the pieces together, but there's something there.

[Vayd]

Nuch--The numbers are apart of an equation that dictates when the world is going to end. They were also the numbers that showed up when the button needed to be pressed at the Swan?(forgot what station it was). How they are tied to the electromagnetic field that the swan was holding down, I have no idea. Maybe it's just some crazy physics and math beyond our comprehension (so to say). Smokey said that Jacob had a thing with numbers.

*The information on the numbers was from some Lost video game.
-Dharma went to the Island in hope to manipulate the numbers and let the world last longer.

[Vayd]

Yeah, I don't know why Smokey is starting to say the shit Locke says. That one annoying latino chick (she reminds me of Sly) said that he's stuck as Locke. Maybe him being "stuck" to Locke's form is causing an assimilation to not only Locke's physical form, but mental (because usually he switches forms quickly and doesn't stay to a single one). I guess the question is--why is he stuck in Locke's form? It can't be a hard one if that annoying latino bitch-sly chick figured it out so easily. I mean who the HELL DOES SHE THINK SHE IS? She's nobody. I must be missing something.

[Yooxra]

Asano - I think your question about Locke/Smokey might be due to Locke being the one person that didn't want to leave the island cause of how pathetic his life was off the island. Maybe that makes him the best candidate or was since he's dead now. I still can't seem to fit many of the pieces together for this really still due to Smokey wanting to leave the island and Locke wanting to stay. So the similarities are there but what they both want/wanted seem backwards to me inless Smokey wanted to use Locke to put him in his position as his candidate for "position black" so Smokey can leave the island? So now that Smokey is recuiting instead of out right killing them all "currently" is so he is using them just to free himself since that's all that he seems to want now? So Jacob was recuiting to replace "position white" and now Smokey is recuiting for "position black"? I know i might be alittle to far gone on this and there might just be "one position" but yeah i'm just gonna throw it out there anyway. Since Smokey's agenda just seems to be to free himself primarily.

I'm not sure what the little kid meant you can't kill "him." Maybe he meant Richard? Seems more like he meant Sawyer though

I was wondering about this too. Maybe he's not allowed to kill caretakers or/and candidates? Cause he obviously can kill people on the island. The others are always hiding from him. The others are always looking for some form of leader too. Which makes me wonder why since they have/had Jacob till he died. But they have been always looking for a new leader it seems for so long, when they got Ben as a kid. They got rid of Whitmoore. When Locke made his move they got rid of Ben. Richard just seems to blindly follow Jacob to find a new leader/Candidate.

That little kid is weird, I can't help but keep going back in my head to wondering where all of the Egyptian hieroglyphics tie in to the whole story. Maybe they're lower gods that were cursed to walk the earth and trapped on the island to protect man? But this kind of shatters the possibility of multiple caretakers, if Jacob was some sort of a god.

Not sure but i also wonder how Smokey isn't a man anymore but once was at one point. I thought that it was said that there is nothing supernatural going on. I see that has gone out the window cause yeah the whole egyptian/smokey thing that has always been around along with Jacob and everything else.

was kate actually not on the list or did they just not show her?

I believe i didn't see her name on the wall. Not sure if she's on the list. Since she is part of the flight she must be.

gunna be interesting to see if or how smokey gets off the island and what would happen if he does.

Obviously the space time continuum stops.

the kid could be a neutral in the battle between jacob and smokey? and now that jacob's maybe dead smokey feels hes won, hence him throwing the white stone out to sea.

I think it's that Smokey thinks Jacob/or the Kid/the island can't keep him on the island now since he is recuiting now instead of just killing people cause Jacob is dead. Also that he doesn't seem to need to follow "the rules" as he said to the kid.

Nuch--The numbers are apart of an equation that dictates when the world is going to end. They were also the numbers that showed up when the button needed to be pressed at the Swan?(forgot what station it was). How they are tied to the electromagnetic field that the swan was holding down, I have no idea. Maybe it's just some crazy physics and math beyond our comprehension (so to say). Smokey said that Jacob had a thing with numbers.

*The information on the numbers was from some Lost video game.
-Dharma went to the Island in hope to manipulate the numbers and let the world last longer.

Makes sense. I was wondering about the numbers and how they tied into the button pushing and the station. I never played the game.

Dumb, but i'm saying it anyway. How is Sawyer gonna climb out of that hole since the latter broke? Guess he's stuck forever. Why does Smokey not just smoke form instead of climb down is what i'm wondering. Btw the first person mode for the smoke monster is cool.

[rursusferre]

haha yoox, i actually thought the same thing about leaving that cave. Here is something I have been thinking about. I am thinking that this "alternative reality" is not happening in parallel to the show but maybe its BECAUSE of the show? that make sense? It seems like that is a better place for everyone on the island. Locke may be in the chair still, but he has a fiance that seems to love him, and he seems overall at better peace with his handicap. Hurley is much better off, charlie atleast isn't dead. Jack doesn't seem like an alchoholic. Maybe jin and son kill that idea, but i dunno. Anyway, that seems like it might be a more idealic world, but maybe the events on the island LET that place happen. Maybe jacob and smokey somehow exist between the realities. So all the bad stuff on the island allow for the existance of the good stuff. We'll see, they need to get some of this shit going.

[rursusferre]

Meh, that "jacob has a thing for numbers" seemed like a total cop-out to explaining the numbers. If their explaination for the numbers is that each one represents a character, thats pretty weak, and seems a little shoe-horned in.

[Gogan]

Meh, that "jacob has a thing for numbers" seemed like a total cop-out to explaining the numbers. If their explaination for the numbers is that each one represents a character, thats pretty weak, and seems a little shoe-horned in.

Totally agree. I remember reading that the writers didn't have plans to say much more about the numbers, so I was surprised to even see them show up in last night's episode. I thought they pretty much wrapped up that piece of the puzzle outside of the show via the Lost Experience game (the Valenzetti equation (http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Valenzetti_Equation) Vayd referred to). But if that were the case, it really doesn't make sense for Jacob to be using the numbers, so I have no idea anymore.

[Yooxra]

This probably went over everyones head but i noticed something else. Sorry ahead of time Nuch. Isn't Nuch studing to become a teacher. Notice Ben is a teacher. Looks like we now know who Nuch is closest to being. Just saying....

[Onion]

Meh, that "jacob has a thing for numbers" seemed like a total cop-out to explaining the numbers. If their explaination for the numbers is that each one represents a character, thats pretty weak, and seems a little shoe-horned in.

If he had said "jacob has a way with numbers" that would have been a little more interesting :D

[Nucholza]

This probably went over everyones head but i noticed something else. Sorry ahead of time Nuch. Isn't Nuch studing to become a teacher. Notice Ben is a teacher. Looks like we now know who Nuch is closest to being. Just saying....

That's ok Hugo!

[Vayd]

I'm Sawyer because I have a chiseled body and a bad boy personality.

Maybe assigning the numbers to candidates for the protector of the island is symbolic to that the protectors of the island have influence of when the world is going to end. MAYBE THE PROTECTOR OF THE ISLAND IS GOD!!!````1111 Yeah, I don't know. Maybe Jacob is gay like Sly and trying to fuck with us.

[Yooxra]

That's ok Hugo!

Nice. I need Hugo's cash/luck.

[rursusferre]

The biggest mystery of Lost? How did Hugo live on an island for 3 years and not lose any weight?

[Vayd]

He has a thyroid condition, asshole.

[Yooxra]

The biggest mystery of Lost? How did Hugo live on an island for 3 years and not lose any weight?

Dude he stole the food that was droped on the island and he raided the food closest in the station. He probably hid a stash like charlie hid his cocaine.

[Cruci]

Dude he stole the food that was droped on the island and he raided the food closest in the station. He probably hid a stash like charlie hid his cocaine.

You guys are all wrong. Fried chicken fat sticks, you eat that shit it and it ain't comin' out. Why do you think black girls have such fine asses?

zing!

[Onion]

You guys are all wrong. Fried chicken fat sticks, you eat that shit it and it ain't comin' out. Why do you think black girls have such fine asses?

zing!

Cuz they're bred like that you idiot.

Oh and Nuch is Shepherd, Yoox is Ben, Vayd is Faraday and Asano is Richard. Rest I don't really care.

Sly has to be a pussy character like that interpreter in the Temple.

[Sly]

nuch is jack because they're both emo bitches. onion is sawyer because they both think they're way cooler then they actually are. vayd is the cop chick because he wasn't around long and who really cares about him? rufus, hugo. yoox is sayid because he was a badass back in the day and we all know yoox needs an ego boost. I can see asano as richard. cruci is the black priest because even though cruci hates black people all religious nuts are the same.
thats all I got right now

[Vayd]

And Onion is Rossou.

[Sly]

oh dq is charlie because even though hes dead to me he was cool.

[rursusferre]

what the fuck, how do i end up being the four hundred pound latino?

[Sly]

comedic relief

[Nucholza]

I don't really find Hugo funny. Most of the time it just reinforces my hatred for fat people.

[rursusferre]

I don't really find Hugo funny. Most of the time it just reinforces my hatred for fat people.

what Jackolza said.

[Cruci]

Tina as Claire would be too obvious, so I choose Rose for her. She seems like she'd be into that interracial shit.

Physics is Boone.

And last but not least, going to nominate Stag as Vincent the Dog. In and out of the story and nobody has seen him for a long time.

[Gogan]

and last but not least, going to nominate stag as vincent the dog. In and out of the story and nobody has seen him for a long time.

lol

[Vayd]

I'm pretty sure Tina is Dr. Leslie Artz. http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/lostpedia/images/b/b6/ArztS3.jpg

[Onion]

Tina, it looks like you're pretty determined in that picture

[Vayd]

Determined to suck your own dick.

[Onion]

I must know where you got that most impressive scarf slash bowtie.

[Yooxra]

I'm pretty sure Tina is Dr. Leslie Artz. http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/lostpedia/images/b/b6/ArztS3.jpg

That bowtie is hot Tina.

[Fusa]

It was her mouth gag, she just removed it from her mouth looking determined as ever.

[DijonQ]

oh dq is charlie because even though hes dead to me he was cool.

Are you still mad because you sang twice?

vayd is the cop chick because he wasn't around long and who really cares about him?

I lol'ed

[Vayd]

Yeah, this is a little awkward. Haven't you heard? I'm sort of a big deal.

[Sly]

no you're right rufus, this guy is more your style.
http://failblog.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/epic-fail-ref-fail.jpg

[Onion]

I'm sort of a big deal.

Going with no.

[rursusferre]

the ref or the black midget wrestler

[Fusa]

im going with the ref

[Yooxra]

im going with the ref

I'm thinking both at once. We can call it a Manwich, no wait maybe a midgetwich.

[Onion]

That smile is really creepy rufus.

[rursusferre]

That smile is really creepy rufus.

whatever dude, look how tight that kids shorts are.

[Nucholza]

I don't have too many questions about this episode, although I think they explained a couple things.

I think its pretty clear that Jacob wants Jack to take his place.

Now I don't feel that Sayid was taken over or anything, but that it really is just some kind of infection that will make him all crazy and become allies with Smokey.

Things I'm not sure of:

- Did I miss something or is this the first time they've ever mentioned David, Jack's son? What the fuck is going on with that?

- So Christian's coffin was empty. Does that mean he isn't dead and him showing up is really him? Or did Smokey simply hide the body so he could take Christian's form without them having seen the dead body.

- When Jacob first talks to Hurley about going to the lighthouse he says that "someone" is coming to the island and needs help getting there. Later on at the lighthouse he says "they'll find another way" - is this just to avoid using he/she pronoun or are there multiple people coming?

[Sly]

I don't think jacob wants jack specifically to take his spot, jacob just knows jack wouldn't be a willing "candidate" unless jack figured it out for himself instead of being told because that's what he tells hugo.

sayid is on the lighthouse wheel so I've got a feeling that somehow jacob can help cure him or at least jacob knows the infection is not a deal breaker.

pretty sure this is the first time david has ever been mentioned.

I just watched both exchanges between jacob and hurley again and he clearly says "someones coming to the island, I need you to help me find it" the first time. so a better question would be what is "it"?

[rursusferre]

I think jack's son only exists in this new timeline. A looooong time ago, there was something about jack getting tattoos in asia that were supposed to be significant, I am still waiting for this to come back again. I agree that Jack is obviously the focus of whatever jacob is doing. Its gotten away from this for a while, but especially at the begining, jack really was seemingly the big focus of the show. They seem to be narrowing this back in. The light house was odd.

[rursusferre]

No sly, he says "I need you to help THEM find it."

[Sly]

yea okay he says "them" but that still doesn't answer wtf "it" is.

[Onion]

Do you think the numbers come from the lighthouse, or do you think they were put there after the numbers were associated with each candidate?

[Nucholza]

yea okay he says "them" but that still doesn't answer wtf "it" is.

it is the lighthouse? at least that's how I see it.

[Sly]

jacks number in the cave is 23 and it was in the lighthouse so I'm gunna say the lighthouse dictated the candidates and jacob acted on that.

[Nucholza]

Do you think the numbers come from the lighthouse, or do you think they were put there after the numbers were associated with each candidate?

I would guess that Jacob put them there. I have a big long theory on the names and crap that I'm way too lazy to type because A) it probably makes no sense outside of my own head and B) it would be a 3 page essay

[Sly]

it is the lighthouse? at least that's how I see it.

I guess maybe.

[Nucholza]

jacks number in the cave is 23 and it was in the lighthouse so I'm gunna say the lighthouse dictated the candidates and jacob acted on that.

Eh, I dunno about that. If that were the case then when smokey tells Sawyer that Jacob has a thing for numbers it doesn't make as much sense. Makes more sense that Jacob simply assigned them the numbers after they were picked (perhaps they're possible solutions to the Valenzetti Equation) or that Jacob himself chose them and wrote down their names and then assigned them the numbers.

[Sly]

Eh, I dunno about that. If that were the case then when smokey tells Sawyer that Jacob has a thing for numbers it doesn't make as much sense. Makes more sense that Jacob simply assigned them the numbers after they were picked (perhaps they're possible solutions to the Valenzetti Equation) or that Jacob himself chose them and wrote down their names and then assigned them the numbers.

but wouldn't it make sense that over time the lighthouse showed 360 different people and as jacob brought them to the island or whatever caused them to fail as a candidate they were scratched off. So now that all the candidates are either on the island or have failed everything is coming to an end for jacob and he doesn't care about the mirrors anymore. And maybe "someone" is a higher power then both jacob and smokey and jacob needs to show the work he's done once the final candidate is found? I dunno

[Nucholza]

but wouldn't it make sense that over time the lighthouse showed 360 different people and as jacob brought them to the island or whatever caused them to fail as a candidate they were scratched off. So now that all the candidates are either on the island or have failed everything is coming to an end for jacob and he doesn't care about the mirrors anymore. And maybe "someone" is a higher power then both jacob and smokey and jacob needs to show the work he's done once the final candidate is found? I dunno

Well, the lighthouse is a 360 degree dial with one name attached to each degree which points towards that there are exactly 360 predetermined candidates that are going to come to the island in predetermined "clumps" or else the odds of just adding names overtime that *happen* to fit a 360 degree dial is waaaaaaaaay too coincidental for Lost.

Its possible that the dial gets filled up and once all the 360 names are scratched off another 360 are added and who knows what dial they're on. So I think its hard to say that just because the dial is almost all scratched off that things are indefinitely coming to an end.

I'm not sure if there will be a higher power than Jacob/Smokey, but I could see them going that direction. It will be interesting to see who exactly is coming to the island - so many possible directions they could take, but if I had to guess I'd say it will be someone we have never seen before or, a more far out guess, is it will be a boat of kids from the other timeline (Jack's son, samurai guy's kid, claire's baby, Sun's baby, Sawyer's kid)

EDIT: Something else I just thought of that is huge and hasn't been addressed is when Locke/Ben go to visit "jacob" in the cabin when Ben was just talking to no one and then stuff started flying around and later Ben confesses that he had no idea what was going on.

[Nucholza]

So you can see a bunch of names when Hurley is moving the dial and next to 108 is the name "Wallace" and is crossed off. So I guess it will be someone we've never seen before, or at least I can't remember anyone named Wallace. There's also a few other names on the dial that aren't crossed off yet and I have no idea who they belong to. It took a bit to pause it on the right frame, but it looks like number 60 is someone named Kysea and 61 is Davies (or Davzes or Davtes can't really tell) and also 56 looks like it isn't crossed out but can barely make out the name (haasea or haasid something).

And why is Jack's name written in something different from all the other ones?

Also, who is going to be David's father? Will it still be his same ex-wife from the original timeline or will it be someone like Juliet since they're still all connected in the new timeline.

[Gogan]

Lostpedia seems to have a pretty comprehensive list of names:

http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Candidates

[Nucholza]

Pretty interesting that just about anyone who is on the island is a candidate.

I'm starting to think that the cave with the names is smokey's list and the lighthouse belongs to Jacob and Jacob doesn't want smokey to use it and that's why he has Jack go there and smash the mirrors.

[Yooxra]

I'm not sure if there will be a higher power than Jacob/Smokey, but I could see them going that direction. It will be interesting to see who exactly is coming to the island - so many possible directions they could take, but if I had to guess I'd say it will be someone we have never seen before or, a more far out guess, is it will be a boat of kids from the other timeline (Jack's son, samurai guy's kid, claire's baby, Sun's baby, Sawyer's kid)

With the child that smokey and some others can see there must be some higher power for the island i'd guess. Remember the skeletons in season 1 with the white and black stones, that was Smokey/Jacob? Smokey says he was a man once. I assume that they came to the island in some similar way in the past. Jacob mostly just seems to give the candidates a push in the direction he wants them to go. He first says that he wants to help "them" get to the island to Hugo, then he tells him it's ok Hugo Jack just needed a push so it was ok he broke the mirrors. So are there more people coming or not? Not sure yet. If there are a "next batch" the kids thing might be possible but doesn't seem to be(i know it's just a random guess). It seems like this batch is almost over and one of them will become the "next Jacob", then maybe another batch will begin "the kids" or something else if that's the direction they go if they were to even go that route. Remember that Jack's number is 23 so he is the Michael Jordan of Lost.


Lostpedia seems to have a pretty comprehensive list of names:

http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Candidates

Noticed the names on the dial and they made me wonder more about if Jacob was simply pushing Jack to break the mirrors for more than one purpose. I mean he tells Hugo about giving Jack the nudge he needs, but it seems like more. Haasea, Kysea the two names not crossed out, names are sorta similar. If more people are trying to get to the island maybe they are the people.

Pretty interesting that just about anyone who is on the island is a candidate.

I'm starting to think that the cave with the names is smokey's list and the lighthouse belongs to Jacob and Jacob doesn't want smokey to use it and that's why he has Jack go there and smash the mirrors.

Might be possible.

So Smokey is recuiting. They say that Sawyer is his first recuit, but notice at the end of the episode that Claire tells Jin that Smokey is her friend. So Jarrah is infected but the darkness that consumes him isn't to his heart yet so he's not "taken over or Smokey's puppet yet?", but Claire is "taken over or Smokey's puppet" due to the darkness reaching her heart long ago? So is Claire a "past recuit or current one" of Smokey's or just one of his minions cause of the whole darkness thing.

I can't wait to see where they go with the whole David part(Jack's son in the flash sideway).

[Nucholza]

I agree that there are other powers on the island, like that kid, but I don't know if I want to commit to saying that they're necessarily "higher" powers.

As far as those two bodies in the cave go, I suppose that could be their bodies, but I have a problem with that being true when Jacob gets stabbed by Ben, bleeds, and his body burns away in a fire and turns to ash.

[rursusferre]

I think nuch is right that the cave is not Jacobs list. Curious as to if the names are the same between the two.

[Yooxra]

I agree that there are other powers on the island, like that kid, but I don't know if I want to commit to saying that they're necessarily "higher" powers.

As far as those two bodies in the cave go, I suppose that could be their bodies, but I have a problem with that being true when Jacob gets stabbed by Ben, bleeds, and his body burns away in a fire and turns to ash.

Yeah about Jacob's body. I just wonder when they shed their actual bodies(If they even did). Was it right there in the foot of the statue for Jacob? Cause Smokey says he was a man once, which he makes sound like it was long ago, plus he is currently Locke, which makes me wonder about the whole thing about the body changing for Smokey. Hey maybe his body is stored somewhere and he can go back to it somehow. Maybe they aren't actually men anymore but they have their physical bodies.

Ok lol this is going places now, i'm gonna stop on this one.

[Nucholza]

My guess would be that they time traveled so much with the island that they "lost" their humanity and became the keepers or whatever of the island. I'd be surprised if this included actually shedding their physical forms and leaving corpses behind.

A simple explanation to all the hieroglyphics would be that Jacob/Smokey were originally from that time period and that's how they used to communicate and learned english/other languages over the incredibly long period of time they've been "alive", or rather trapped. But, I'd like to think there's a more complex and beautiful explanation to all the hieroglyphics than that.

I wonder how long Jacob/Smokey have actually been on the island for. There's ash on the island before Jacob dies which would indicate prior keepers. Maybe they keep reliving the same time period over and over until one of them is able to "win". Each time they redo the same time period they gain more knowledge of the candidates and they're able to manipulate them even more. So then the alternate timeline we're seeing where 815 didn't crash is a failed attempt that was just "progress" and Jacob/Smokey used the island to go back in time and start over. Who knows how many times that's happened and that's why when the losties see each other outside the island they get a sense of familiarity.

But I guess that doesn't make much sense when we saw that Jack suddenly had his appendix missing in the alternate time line and can't remember having the surgery done. Maybe Jacob/Smokey have turned back time so much that parts of the time lines are beginning to blend/mesh together into one or something.

I was pretty bored in class today so I just kept thinking about lost lol

Something else to note is remember how Farraday kept saying that to get to and from the island you had to make sure you kept a bearing of 305? I wonder if that's because the dial in the lighthouse was set to 305? or does that number have some sort of other significance or none at all?

[Yooxra]

My guess would be that they time traveled so much with the island that they "lost" their humanity and became the keepers or whatever of the island. I'd be surprised if this included actually shedding their physical forms and leaving corpses behind.

A simple explanation to all the hieroglyphics would be that Jacob/Smokey were originally from that time period and that's how they used to communicate and learned english/other languages over the incredibly long period of time they've been "alive", or rather trapped. But, I'd like to think there's a more complex and beautiful explanation to all the hieroglyphics than that.

I wonder how long Jacob/Smokey have actually been on the island for. There's ash on the island before Jacob dies which would indicate prior keepers. Maybe they keep reliving the same time period over and over until one of them is able to "win". Each time they redo the same time period they gain more knowledge of the candidates and they're able to manipulate them even more. So then the alternate timeline we're seeing where 815 didn't crash is a failed attempt that was just "progress" and Jacob/Smokey used the island to go back in time and start over. Who knows how many times that's happened and that's why when the losties see each other outside the island they get a sense of familiarity.

But I guess that doesn't make much sense when we saw that Jack suddenly had his appendix missing in the alternate time line and can't remember having the surgery done. Maybe Jacob/Smokey have turned back time so much that parts of the time lines are beginning to blend/mesh together into one or something.

I was pretty bored in class today so I just kept thinking about lost lol

Something else to note is remember how Farraday kept saying that to get to and from the island you had to make sure you kept a bearing of 305? I wonder if that's because the dial in the lighthouse was set to 305? or does that number have some sort of other significance or none at all?

Good theory about the time travel part for Jacob/Smokey. Also about how it might be possible to be playing the time periods over and over. Remember how some of the people that were on the island died from time traveling to much? Could explain how Jacob/Smokey lost their physical bodies possibly. Jacob did always know when to intervene in the candidates lives when they were children to steer them to the island. I would think with the power they have they could time travel. However, i don't think Richard could time travel cause he was always trying to figure out who the people were that went back in time and tryed to explain things to him(Locke for example). Richard is an advisor, but i'd still like to know how deep he fits into this whole story.

It might be possible that Jacob/Smokey been around that long(egyptian times). This was a question Asano and I through around some, but we have no answer. If there were prior keepers it makes me wonder how long Jacob has been a keeper for, and how long has he been trying to find a replacement. I'm not sure if they are trying to "win" something, but Smokey has found ways around the "rules", and just seems to want to escape now(possibly cause he couldn't "win"). So maybe Jacob was to keep Smokey trapped there for all time or something else.

Something else, at times the island just seems like a test. Even more so when you have the child say things like you can't break the rules.

[rursusferre]

I'm really confidet we'll find out that Jacob and smokey are from the future. I'd be really suprised if they are from ancient Egypt.

[Sly]

wasn't there a scene once when the "feet statue" was a whole statue and jacob and some other dude where having a conversation by it?

[Nucholza]

wasn't there a scene once when the "feet statue" was a whole statue and jacob and some other dude where having a conversation by it?

I don't remember if anyone was talking by it, but yeah there was a scene of the statue whole and it looked like Anubis. And the whole ankh thing Hurley brought to the temple that shows up in a few other places are connected to the whole Egyptian theme.

[rursusferre]

Oh they might have existed in egyptian times, but I don't think that's their time of origin.

[Nucholza]

Oh they might have existed in egyptian times, but I don't think that's their time of origin.

Right, they probably time traveled back to that time.

[Yooxra]

wasn't there a scene once when the "feet statue" was a whole statue and jacob and some other dude where having a conversation by it?

Two different scenes, one was of the full statue.

Other scene was Jacob talking to Smokey on the beach next to it but they never show it, in this scene they show a boat from around 15-17th century i believe and Smokey telling Jacob he wants to kill him or something close.

I think.

[rursusferre]

yeah, the full statue i think is to show that they lived were alive so long ago the statue still existed, now he just lives in the foot.

[rursusferre]

For an episode that was going to "tell us everything" NOT A GODDAMN THING HAPPENED THE WHOLE FUCKING EPISODE

[Nucholza]

For an episode that was going to "tell us everything" NOT A GODDAMN THING HAPPENED THE WHOLE FUCKING EPISODE

Maybe you didn't notice, but at the end of the episode in small print it said: "This episode brought to you by ELUNNE"

[Gogan]

Their previews have always been full of shit.

I thought it was one of the better episodes of the season, but, of course, the bar hasn't been set very high either. No questions answered, as usual, but at least stuff happened. Surprised to see Kate join Locke's posse, but it seems like she's just tagging along to see what happens.

Sadly, not a whole lot to talk about. Only 10 more episodes to go.

[rursusferre]

The only real thing that was confirmed was that everytime someone saw a dead friend/relative, it was the smoke monster.

[Yooxra]

Look at it this way, also take note that the same stuff is happening in the flash sideways that seem unavoidable for those going down the path of becoming bad. I guess you can say the same for those that have become good or netural.

Sayid for example in the flash sideways being forced to protect his brother's kids and the woman he loves. He trys to stay good and wash his hands, but he has no choice but to protect the ones he loves. He has no brotherly love from turning his brother down!

Kate is fighting to escape so it's alittle different for her you can say in the sideways. On the island she seems to be tagging along, Smokey doesn't get a chance to ask her to join or not, we have to assume for now that she did since she is along for the ride. So she is just trying to survive(same as in the sideways).

Jack and his son are on better terms in the flash sideways, Jacob seems to be pushing him along the path of the righteous(whatever that might be still)!

Hugo, he just seems netural in the whole series.

Dogen and his buddy the hippie die, this part is alittle confusing cause would this of ever happened if they just left Sayid alone(just the same as the sideways cause Sayid listened to her to not get involved till he was forced to). Dogen convinced Sayid that if he had any good in him he would strike Smokey down. Now i know that this was just a plot to get Sayid killed cause he is inevitablely going to be evil anyway it seems, but Sayid made the choice to strike Smokey down(if he had any good left in him). Seems like while it was just a trick to get him killed it had more meaning it to, cause Sayid's choice. One last thing Dogen has tryed to kill Smokey before it looks like, so is Smokey even killable? I'd assume so since Jacob is dead, is there some secret way of killing him? If so why since Jacob died so easy. So Sayid becomes evil in the end.

My question about Sayid is that Smokey seemed to know that Sayid would kill Dogen before he even striked the dagger into Smokey. Cause he didn't kill Sayid, Smokey doesn't seem to kill anyone that is one his side(or has darkness in them). So it was gonna happen either way cause Sayid was gonna become evil either way and Dogen was gonna do what he did either way cause to stay good they have to fight evil?

So for now we can break it up like this.

Good guys, Jack, Hugo, Jin?, Sun, Elana, Pilot dude, Ben?lol, Half the village(dead).

Bad guys, Sawyer, Sayid, Claire, Kate?, half the village with Smokey now.

Maybes(undecided), Kate, Jin, Ben?(How can Ben be good I know lol).

I know i might of missed some for this list.

Another thing i don't understand is that Smokey chooses to leave some people alive that don't choose to join him out right. I wonder why, Richard for example, another example is Jin(possibly), another is Kate(maybe), there are others that i'm sure i can't think of right now.

Preview for next episode shows Smokey going after Ben and the preview claims Ben dies, so we will get to that later, but i assume Ben turns his offer down so he dies for it.

[Nucholza]

Look at it this way, also take note that the same stuff is happening in the flash sideways that seem unavoidable for those going down the path of becoming bad. I guess you can say the same for those that have become good or netural.

That's a good point, didn't think about that.

Kate is fighting to escape so it's alittle different for her you can say in the sideways. On the island she seems to be tagging along, Smokey doesn't get a chance to ask her to join or not, we have to assume for now that she did since she is along for the ride. So she is just trying to survive(same as in the sideways).

I don't know if she's just along for the ride as much as she's trying to absolve herself for taking Aaron from Claire.

Jack and his son are on better terms in the flash sideways, Jacob seems to be pushing him along the path of the righteous(whatever that might be still)!

Does Jack even have a son in the normal timeline?


One last thing Dogen has tryed to kill Smokey before it looks like, so is Smokey even killable? I'd assume so since Jacob is dead, is there some secret way of killing him? If so why since Jacob died so easy. So Sayid becomes evil in the end.

I don't think Dogen had tried to kill Smokey before. I remember Sayid saying something to him about how he's had two chances now to go and try to kill Smokey himself but both times he's attempted to get other people to do the job. Then later we find out that Dogen simply being alive is what is keeping Smokey from entering the temple. I don't think Dogen could kill Smokey if he wanted to and he's just a guardian for the only safe haven on the island that Jacob could create.

My question about Sayid is that Smokey seemed to know that Sayid would kill Dogen before he even striked the dagger into Smokey. Cause he didn't kill Sayid, Smokey doesn't seem to kill anyone that is one his side(or has darkness in them). So it was gonna happen either way cause Sayid was gonna become evil either way and Dogen was gonna do what he did either way cause to stay good they have to fight evil?

Well, I think Smokey knew that Sayid could not refuse an offer to be reunited with Nadia. Also, remember how Dogen told Sayid that he had to strike Smokey before he could talk to Sayid? My guess would be that this is because Smokey would be able to complete whatever sickness Sayid has and fully take him over like he has Claire. Although, Sayid didn't seem as far gone as Claire in the aftermath even though he did kill Dogen / Hippie bitch.

[rursusferre]

In general yoox, I feel Richard needs his own episode atleast. There is alot left with him, and he has all but disappeared recently. I also think Kate is not in the smokey camp as well. I am curious if ben is going to have some redemption before he dies. We'll see.

[Yooxra]

I don't know if she's just along for the ride as much as she's trying to absolve herself for taking Aaron from Claire.

Yeah i agree i think she is trying to absolve herself about Aaron with Claire. I thought she took Aaron because she thought Claire was dead at that point or gone. I mean the baby was left alone remember? Was there really a choice to leave the baby alone. So Kate decides after the three years that she wants to find Claire all of a sudden? That is why she came back to the island right? I'm alittle fuzzy on this part.

Does Jack even have a son in the normal timeline?

I don't think he does.

I don't think Dogen had tried to kill Smokey before. I remember Sayid saying something to him about how he's had two chances now to go and try to kill Smokey himself but both times he's attempted to get other people to do the job. Then later we find out that Dogen simply being alive is what is keeping Smokey from entering the temple. I don't think Dogen could kill Smokey if he wanted to and he's just a guardian for the only safe haven on the island that Jacob could create.

Himself no, but he did have someone else before Sayid to try and kill him. Smokey told Sayid that. Weither Dogen could kill Smokey or not, who knows, maybe he is a guardian or something(kinda like Richard that have to follow certain rules?). Dogen didn't finish off Sayid himself either, also Dogen tryed to get Jack to kill Sayid with the pill, so Dogen is just trying to get others to do his dirty work for him(weither he can do it himself or not). Sayid realized that he wouldn't do his own dirty work became angry and killed him(maybe he thought Dogen was a coward or whatever other reason).

Well, I think Smokey knew that Sayid could not refuse an offer to be reunited with Nadia. Also, remember how Dogen told Sayid that he had to strike Smokey before he could talk to Sayid? My guess would be that this is because Smokey would be able to complete whatever sickness Sayid has and fully take him over like he has Claire. Although, Sayid didn't seem as far gone as Claire in the aftermath even though he did kill Dogen / Hippie bitch.

Smokey is very clever and getting lots of them to follow his path. While Sayid didn't seem as far gone yet(cause the darkness needed time to get to his heart then he would be fully gone) at the end of the episode him smiling like that has to mean he's in league with Smokey now. Dogen just told Sayid to strike Smokey before he could talk cause he figured that Smokey would kill Sayid outright i believe and save him the trouble of dealing with another one of Smokey's eventual goons.

So, this seems very much that fate is unavoidable cause the flash sideways every thing is happening the same or close to.

[Yooxra]

In general yoox, I feel Richard needs his own episode atleast. There is alot left with him, and he has all but disappeared recently. I also think Kate is not in the smokey camp as well. I am curious if ben is going to have some redemption before he dies. We'll see.

I agree for sure they better give Richard justice of an episode(he has been one of my favorite characters along with Faraday). I wonder where Richard did run off to, since there is no safespots now that the temple is gone or is there? Then again can Smokey kill Richard or not? I mean Smokey did neck chop him pretty good, it's still so unclear.

I have to admit that i was alittle disapointed when the preview for next week just shows Ben's demise. He was so much of a ringleader for so long that he has just become a pawn. I mean i hated Ben for a while and he's alittle mo for killing Locke, but it just doesn't seem right just offing him now.

[Nucholza]

Yeah i agree i think she is trying to absolve herself about Aaron with Claire. I thought she took Aaron because she thought Claire was dead at that point or gone. I mean the baby was left alone remember? Was there really a choice to leave the baby alone. So Kate decides after the three years that she wants to find Claire all of a sudden? That is why she came back to the island right? I'm alittle fuzzy on this part.

Well, they didn't have a choice in taking Aaron or not, but Kate made the choice to raise him rather than give him to Claire's mom. She kept Aaron a secret from any of his real family. Also she waited 3 years before deciding to try and find Claire instead of going after her sooner.


Dogen didn't finish off Sayid himself either

The baseball dropping from the table right as Dogen is about to kill Sayid is probably very significant to why he didn't kill Sayid himself. My guess would be the baseball was his son's and for some reason seeing it drop made him think twice about killing.

Sayid realized that he wouldn't do his own dirty work became angry and killed him(maybe he thought Dogen was a coward or whatever other reason).

Is that why Sayid killed him? Seems to me the reason Sayid killed him is because Smokey asked him to after delivering the message. Dogen was what kept Smokey out of the temple so he needed Sayid to kill Dogen for him or he couldn't keep his promise of killing everyone that wouldn't come with him after sundown.

[Gogan]

Well, they didn't have a choice in taking Aaron or not, but Kate made the choice to raise him rather than give him to Claire's mom. She kept Aaron a secret from any of his real family. Also she waited 3 years before deciding to try and find Claire instead of going after her sooner.

Claire is just batshit insane now. Crazy people don't need logical reasons to do the things they do. On a side note, I loved the look she gave Kate when Kate explained that she was raising Aaron. Such an awesomely eerie and evil look.


The baseball dropping from the table right as Dogen is about to kill Sayid is probably very significant to why he didn't kill Sayid himself. My guess would be the baseball was his son's and for some reason seeing it drop made him think twice about killing.

Yeah, I'm guessing there's more to that story. Dogen's story just kind of stopped without really explaining why exactly that memory caused him to suddenly have mercy on Sayid.

Seems to me the reason Sayid killed him is because Smokey asked him to after delivering the message. Dogen was what kept Smokey out of the temple so he needed Sayid to kill Dogen for him or he couldn't keep his promise of killing everyone that wouldn't come with him after sundown.

That was my impression as well.

[rursusferre]

So my girlfriend read me some stuff after a discussion about how much the episode last night sucked.

Going with my Aaron = smoke monster theory: Apparently during the first season Claire gets a fortune teller to read her fortune. She tells claire its of the most utmost importance that she raises her son, no one else. Nothing concrete, but its something.

Also, someone wrote about how the others worked so hard to capture walt, then seemed to let him go so easily and let him off the island. What if they are looking for someone's son. They don't know who, but they know the person is someone's son. Seems to be something similiar with Jack, they keep putting importance on the fact he is christian's son. But what if Christian isn't important himself as much as he is a man who has been to the island and has had a son. Again, nothing concrete, but there seems to be these themes of the "prodigal son" alot on Lost. What if Aaron is supposed to be some savior. Kinda of a long shot, and it would add one more thing to the list of Lost plotlines, but I don't put it past them. The smoke monster seems to have a liking of claire. I am sure she has no idea, but what if he does.

[Yooxra]

Well, they didn't have a choice in taking Aaron or not, but Kate made the choice to raise him rather than give him to Claire's mom. She kept Aaron a secret from any of his real family. Also she waited 3 years before deciding to try and find Claire instead of going after her sooner.

Yeah, i remember that now thanks. I think that Claire would say the same thing " wut my momma raised my kid, she dies now!". Like Asano said crazy people don't need logical reasoning. I see why Kate wants to make it right.

The baseball dropping from the table right as Dogen is about to kill Sayid is probably very significant to why he didn't kill Sayid himself. My guess would be the baseball was his son's and for some reason seeing it drop made him think twice about killing.

Yeah it was mercy then for Sayid cause of this part. I guess he could of killed him and there was nothing really stopping him except him not wanting to jeopardize something.

Is that why Sayid killed him? Seems to me the reason Sayid killed him is because Smokey asked him to after delivering the message. Dogen was what kept Smokey out of the temple so he needed Sayid to kill Dogen for him or he couldn't keep his promise of killing everyone that wouldn't come with him after sundown.

Yeah it is. It just really seemed like Sayid wouldn't of did it if Dogen wasn't trying to kill him. Even for the proposal of Smokey to reunite him with Nadia(maybe). Maybe Sayid would of anyway cause Nadia is the only thing he cared about really. Sayid just always seemed like a good guy even tho the whole iraq army thing and him trying to avoid that kind of stuff.

Thing is really from what i'm seeing with the show. Once you go bad there is no turning back no matter how hard you try to make a mends.

[Yooxra]

So my girlfriend read me some stuff after a discussion about how much the episode last night sucked.

Going with my Aaron = smoke monster theory: Apparently during the first season Claire gets a fortune teller to read her fortune. She tells claire its of the most utmost importance that she raises her son, no one else. Nothing concrete, but its something.

Also, someone wrote about how the others worked so hard to capture walt, then seemed to let him go so easily and let him off the island. What if they are looking for someone's son. They don't know who, but they know the person is someone's son. Seems to be something similiar with Jack, they keep putting importance on the fact he is christian's son. But what if Christian isn't important himself as much as he is a man who has been to the island and has had a son. Again, nothing concrete, but there seems to be these themes of the "prodigal son" alot on Lost. What if Aaron is supposed to be some savior. Kinda of a long shot, and it would add one more thing to the list of Lost plotlines, but I don't put it past them. The smoke monster seems to have a liking of claire. I am sure she has no idea, but what if he does.

Good to bring this kind of stuff up cause it's hard to keep track of alot of S1 stuff and matching it with S6 stuff. I wouldn't put it past them. It's a cool theory. We talked some about how the kids were so important at one point and the story just totally took a right turn and never went back. The whole time travel thing combine with kids among other things, anything is possible.

[Gogan]

Going with my Aaron = smoke monster theory: Apparently during the first season Claire gets a fortune teller to read her fortune. She tells claire its of the most utmost importance that she raises her son, no one else. Nothing concrete, but its something.

Anything is certainly possible, but I'm putting my bet on Aaron turning out to be nothing at all. Just one of those things they made a big deal about early on and just let it fizzle out -- just like Walt.

I think the reason the fortune teller said Claire had to raise the baby herself is because her giving it up for adoption leads to her getting on the 815 flight (she was flying to LA to visit the prospective parents) that crashes on the island. If Claire raised the baby herself, she'd never get on the plane and would've been fine.

[DijonQ]

I hate to be so glass-half-empty but these guys have no idea what the fuck is going on. I wouldn't be surprised if the writers check the message boards to see what they should write next.
Ten episodes from now all of us who post here are gonna be full of piss and vinegar...talking shit about how this is the worst series ending since the Sopranos.

[rursusferre]

What the fuck man...we know everything

[Yooxra]

what the fuck man...we know everything

yep

[rursusferre]

Its science

[Onion]

Yeah I really like JJ Abrams but I'm starting to get the feeling like the writers are just shitting all over Lost because they started way too many plot lines they can't tie together.

[Yooxra]

Wasn't that sweet. So out of all the people that go bad Ben becomes good and lives. I like how they decided not to just kill him after all. I almost shed a tear.

So Kate is offically a badie. Ben is offically good. Jack can stop dynamite with his mind. Richard can't die less someone kills him, he also has secrets that he still won't shed light on. Nine episodes left I really would like to know more about Richard, anyone else get really nervous tonight when we thought that Jack was just going to kill him and we would never know "the Richard secrets"? Or was that just me?

This whole theme of Jacob being god, Jack being jesus, smokey being satan, etc is really starting to show. Notice the "good guys" back on the beach? Is that surpose to be the "test spot", the non cheating spot with no refrigerators and houses that will eventually lead them to salvation?

Charles Widmore has finally found the island again, interesting.

The egyptian symbol that had the secret passage way was "shen" meaning to protect. I wonder if they will do more with the whole egyptian hieroglyphics part of the show than just this.

Cause i like hieroglyphics.

http://www.bl.uk/learning/images/whywrite/new/hieroglyphics-lg.jpg

[rursusferre]

Don't forget yoox, we learned officially that by touching someone, Jacob allows them to live forever. He gives life, smokey takes it, blah blah blah.

[Nucholza]

So Kate is offically a badie.

What makes you say that?

Nothing else to say =\ pretty disappointed!

[Gogan]

What makes you say that?

Nothing else to say =\ pretty disappointed!

Before each new episode, they replay last week's episode with popups. In tonight's "recap" episode, they specifically said Kate joined Locke.

You were really disappointed with tonight's episode? Man, I thought it was great! Definitely the best episode yet this season. Got some answers on a bunch of things. I thought the moment between Ben and the chick at the end was really great. And in the alternate timeline, when Ben's father said that they had already gone to the island but left! And is it just me, or did Alex get hot? And the moment between Richard and Jack during the dynamite showdown! Jack's purpose is finally becoming clear to him. And Widmoore! Everything is finally coming together, and getting good!

I haven't fully digested everything from tonight's episode, but I think tonight was a turning point. We're gonna be in for a good ride from here on out.

[Nucholza]

"This is the first time Kate has seen the "ressurected" John Locke and she knows Locke is on the wrong side" is the last said in the recap episode. That makes me think that she hasn't actually joined them, but they do also say "Now Locke has acquired the remaining Others, Sayid, Claire, and Kate" which is conflicting, right?

I dunno, the episode was good as a stand-alone episode for all the reasons you listed, I just expect more to happen in these last 10 episodes. I remember watching tonight's episode and fast-forwarding through some commercials and noticing I was 45 min into the episode and wondering "what the fuck, nothing big has happened".

I agree that things are looking up and getting good, but that's the same feeling I had after the last episode, "Sundown", and thinking this one with Ben would be amazingly good. So I dunno, just feels like getting setup for mediocrity once again.

My own personal highlight for this episode was due to myself. In one of the last scenes when Jack, Richard, and Hurley arrive at the beach and Sun runs towards Hurley I just thought to myself "wouldn't it be awesome if this is where they answer the questions of which Kwan is the candidate because Hurley's fatass trips and falls and crushes Sun to death". But maybe that's just me...

[Yooxra]

Don't forget yoox, we learned officially that by touching someone, Jacob allows them to live forever. He gives life, smokey takes it, blah blah blah.

Would like an answer to why Richard gets to live forever and why the others don't. But yeah it's Jacob putting people on "the path" and when their faith diminishes he seems to leave them hanging(straight out of the bible). To the point that he is dead now cause of it. On another note, Jack seems to be the new Locke in terms of believing(and of course the stoping the dynomite with his brain power). Which makes me remember how Locke tryed to convince everyone about the island(to come back to it too).

One other thing about Richard notice he said he wasn't time traveling to Hurley in the episode. Not that it means anything just yet, throwing that out there for future reference.

I liked how when the crew walked up on the beach Hurley is so big that he eclipsed Richard till the last moment. I can't help but to get the song "the boys are back in town" in my head everytime they do the strolling onto the beach part and start hugging.

So the good guys seem to be set now and the bad guys. Is the Charles crew gonna be a third party? Seems like now the table is set and a clash is gonna happen or something else.

[Gogan]

(and of course the stoping the dynomite with his brain power)

LOL, dude, he didn't stop it with his "brain power". =P The idea is that some force beyond their control (fate, nature, god, whatever) won't allow events to transpire that would result in their death. Jack doesn't have superpowers. Ever see Final Destination, the movie where no matter what the kids try and do, death always finds them? It's like that, but in reverse. No matter what Jack and Richard try and do, they'll always escape death.

One other thing about Richard notice he said he wasn't time traveling to Hurley in the episode. Not that it means anything just yet, throwing that out there for future reference.

I think it was a reference to the fact that Richard didn't age since the last time (in the 70s?) Hurley and crew saw him. I don't recall exactly when they last met, but Hurley said something like "you haven't aged" after that line.

I liked how when the crew walked up on the beach Hurley is so big that he eclipsed Richard till the last moment. I can't help but to get the song "the boys are back in town" in my head everytime they do the strolling onto the beach part and start hugging.

Seriously, how many times have they shot that scene? It's like the iconic scene for this show. Did you notice the music playing when Jack and Hurley set off for the temple, just before they met Richard? It was some comical bass/percussion piece you'd expect to hear while watching elephants travel or something. I was cracking up.

So the good guys seem to be set now and the bad guys. Is the Charles crew gonna be a third party? Seems like now the table is set and a clash is gonna happen or something else.

It sounded like from the Lighthouse episode that Jacob wanted Charles to find the island, so I'm guessing he's a "good guy", but I'm not quite sure yet what that means exactly. Until we find out what the purpose and true nature of the island, Jacob, and Smokey are, it's hard to say.

On another note, Locke told Ben that they were headed to the Hydra station. Do we have any idea why they'd be heading there?

[rursusferre]

I kinda of agree with asano, I thought it was a decent episode. Moving in the right direction atleast. When Richard came running out of the woods I definitely thought of you yoox. Got a little bit of insight. Originally I thought Richard wasn't aging because of time travel stuff stated on th show, but it appears to be different. I agree that the ben scene at the end was really good and I too felt that hurley looked like a baby elephant let loose on the beach. I think widmoore was not a suprise at all, and perhaps we'll see the Locke camp and Jacob camp have to collectively deal with him.

[rursusferre]

I agree asano and definitely made a comment to Melissa about it. The slow-mo reunion with the orchestra in the background is like their "go to" montage.

[Nucholza]

I don't remember the exact line, but Jack asked Richard if he had "ever been here before" when Richard appeared in the woods and told Jack and Hurley to follow him to the temple, but instead took them to the Black Rock. Richard's response was that he had been there before, but hadn't come back since. Sounds like they confirmed that Richard came to the island on the Black Rock, and he hasn't aged since due to Jacob's touch.

Would like an answer to why Richard gets to live forever and why the others don't

Either it's because Jacob chose to give that "gift" to Richard specifically so he could play his role as a kind of wise and knowledgeable adviser to the Others or everyone else does get to live forever just like him and it just hasn't been long enough for us to be able to tell if they've aged at all. Remember, Richard isn't eternal, he just can't kill himself. I'm not 100% sure, but fairly sure, that no one that Jacob has touched has committed suicide which is the only thing keeping Richard from dying - someone else can kill him so it wouldn't mean he's special.

On another note, Locke told Ben that they were headed to the Hydra station. Do we have any idea why they'd be heading there?

Locke keeps talking about leaving the Island for good, that's why he came to Ben and offered him the job as the island's protector. Maybe he has someway off the island - didn't Ben tell Miles that he could get off the island and get him 3 million? So maybe there's another sub that Ben and Smokey know about? Or maybe Smokey plans on taking Widmore's? In any case I'd say Whidmore is there to stop Smokey from leaving.

What will be interesting to see is if Whidmore is the only notable person on that submarine.

[Yooxra]

LOL, dude, he didn't stop it with his "brain power". =P The idea is that some force beyond their control (fate, nature, god, whatever) won't allow events to transpire that would result in their death. Jack doesn't have superpowers. Ever see Final Destination, the movie where no matter what the kids try and do, death always finds them? It's like that, but in reverse. No matter what Jack and Richard try and do, they'll always escape death.

Of course lol. That was surpose to be a joke. Hard to tell sometimes tho when Jack closes his eyes and thinks so hard his face turns red hah.

Seriously, how many times have they shot that scene? It's like the iconic scene for this show. Did you notice the music playing when Jack and Hurley set off for the temple, just before they met Richard? It was some comical bass/percussion piece you'd expect to hear while watching elephants travel or something. I was cracking up.

Rofl

It sounded like from the Lighthouse episode that Jacob wanted Charles to find the island, so I'm guessing he's a "good guy", but I'm not quite sure yet what that means exactly. Until we find out what the purpose and true nature of the island, Jacob, and Smokey are, it's hard to say.

On another note, Locke told Ben that they were headed to the Hydra station. Do we have any idea why they'd be heading there?

No, but it's a good question. I was wondering what significance the hydra station did for the bad guys too. Cept leaving the island.

[Yooxra]

I kinda of agree with asano, I thought it was a decent episode. Moving in the right direction atleast. When Richard came running out of the woods I definitely thought of you yoox. Got a little bit of insight. Originally I thought Richard wasn't aging because of time travel stuff stated on th show, but it appears to be different. I agree that the ben scene at the end was really good and I too felt that hurley looked like a baby elephant let loose on the beach. I think widmoore was not a suprise at all, and perhaps we'll see the Locke camp and Jacob camp have to collectively deal with him.

I want to know why Jacob gave Richard the power of not aging, why not give it to the others?

[Yooxra]

I don't remember the exact line, but Jack asked Richard if he had "ever been here before" when Richard appeared in the woods and told Jack and Hurley to follow him to the temple, but instead took them to the Black Rock. Richard's response was that he had been there before, but hadn't come back since. Sounds like they confirmed that Richard came to the island on the Black Rock, and he hasn't aged since due to Jacob's touch.

Yeah I think he was a prisoner on the ship.

Either it's because Jacob chose to give that "gift" to Richard specifically so he could play his role as a kind of wise and knowledgeable adviser to the Others or everyone else does get to live forever just like him and it just hasn't been long enough for us to be able to tell if they've aged at all. Remember, Richard isn't eternal, he just can't kill himself. I'm not 100% sure, but fairly sure, that no one that Jacob has touched has committed suicide which is the only thing keeping Richard from dying - someone else can kill him so it wouldn't mean he's special.

Yeah it's good reasoning as the advisor role. I just wonder why he choose him. He does fit the role well, he just always seems like he has a much bigger purpose.

Locke keeps talking about leaving the Island for good, that's why he came to Ben and offered him the job as the island's protector. Maybe he has someway off the island - didn't Ben tell Miles that he could get off the island and get him 3 million? So maybe there's another sub that Ben and Smokey know about? Or maybe Smokey plans on taking Widmore's? In any case I'd say Whidmore is there to stop Smokey from leaving.

What will be interesting to see is if Whidmore is the only notable person on that submarine.

I think Widmoore is there to stop him. He seems like he has other motives as well. He did want control of the island back from Ben before leaving, and has tryed to return since. But he did say that a war was coming, here it is the good vs evil.

[Sly]

for the record asano, alex got wicked hot.

[DijonQ]

for the record asano, alex got wicked hot.

I'm not saying she looks like the Hamburgler, but on the "Hollywood hot" scale she's middle of the road at best. Getting her teeth fixed helped.

I don't know what made me think of this, but are there names on Jacob's list that we're on the Oceanic flight and were among the season 1 prople kidnapped off the beach? Like the stewardess chick?
I guess I'm just assuming that everyone who survived the crash was on Jacob's lighthouse wheel. This leads me to wonder about the distinction between the two camps.

[Gogan]

I don't know what made me think of this, but are there names on Jacob's list that we're on the Oceanic flight and were among the season 1 prople kidnapped off the beach? Like the stewardess chick?
I guess I'm just assuming that everyone who survived the crash was on Jacob's lighthouse wheel. This leads me to wonder about the distinction between the two camps.

Ya know, I've been thinking about that too. Ever since they showed the stewardess with the others (we first saw her at the Hydra station, and now with the temple others), I've been wondering what was up there. I can't think of anyone else like that. IIRC, they mostly kidnapped children from the crash survivors.

[Onion]

Rex,
Alex is hot, stfu, who cares about hollywood scale!

Totally called Richard being a prisoner on the Black Rock

Jacob may give people gifts when he touches them, but they may not all be the same.

Nuch, Hurley crushing Sun made me laugh so fucking hard omg thanks for that.

[rursusferre]

Sigh, again, more needs to happen. But I think my Aaron=smoke monster theory gained credibility. I will impatiently wait for the Richard episode next week.

[Nucholza]

What aggravates me the most is the same thing that made me stop watching Lost after season 1 and not pick it back up until season 6 - Most of the episode is a bunch of stuff that you have no idea where they're going with it and it just feels like individual episodes that don't really connect together and may as well be from different shows altogether.

For the past couple episodes, the majority of the episode is from the alternate timeline that we have no idea what the importance of it all is, what the fuck it has to do with what all else is going on, and it just feels like a bunch of filler bullshit that isn't very interesting.

Next episode should be (fingers crossed) pretty good.

[Onion]

Gonna go ahead and guess that smokey killed those people on hydra island, and whatever is in the locked room on the sub is something that they can use to either kill him or take his power somehow.

Very empty show, felt like it was 20 mins long.

I'm starting to get the feeling that the alternate realty is just there to show that all of those people are still connected even without the island existing after they detonated the bomb. Seems like a really stupid reason to have it play such a big part though, but then again we are talking about one of the most convoluted shows in the history of television.

So far in the alternate realty we've been seeing small interactions between certain characters, but Sawyer catching Kate may start to tie them all together, we'll see.

[Yooxra]

Sigh, again, more needs to happen. But I think my Aaron=smoke monster theory gained credibility. I will impatiently wait for the Richard episode next week.

Would be crazy if Claire is smokey's mom. He slapped his mom!

[Yooxra]

What aggravates me the most is the same thing that made me stop watching Lost after season 1 and not pick it back up until season 6 - Most of the episode is a bunch of stuff that you have no idea where they're going with it and it just feels like individual episodes that don't really connect together and may as well be from different shows altogether.

For the past couple episodes, the majority of the episode is from the alternate timeline that we have no idea what the importance of it all is, what the fuck it has to do with what all else is going on, and it just feels like a bunch of filler bullshit that isn't very interesting.

Next episode should be (fingers crossed) pretty good.

Next episode better be good with all the build up for Richard all this time, but sadly i don't think it will cause of to much hyping it up.

Seems like smokey is just gonna get past the next pylons and finish off the Widmoore crew and him at some point.

[Yooxra]

Gonna go ahead and guess that smokey killed those people on hydra island, and whatever is in the locked room on the sub is something that they can use to either kill him or take his power somehow.

Very empty show, felt like it was 20 mins long.

I'm starting to get the feeling that the alternate realty is just there to show that all of those people are still connected even without the island existing after they detonated the bomb. Seems like a really stupid reason to have it play such a big part though, but then again we are talking about one of the most convoluted shows in the history of television.

So far in the alternate realty we've been seeing small interactions between certain characters, but Sawyer catching Kate may start to tie them all together, we'll see.

Another possibility i'll throw out there, maybe another major factor will happen on the island that will make the alternative reality stay the real one and the island reality will cease to exist. Remember the first episode where the island was underwater? Maybe smokey wins and gets the people off the island. Maybe none of the candidates become the new Jacob. Yeah yeah i know this will most likely not happen.

[Gogan]

Sigh, again, more needs to happen. But I think my Aaron=smoke monster theory gained credibility. I will impatiently wait for the Richard episode next week.

Yep, another boring episode. =/ I can't believe with all the loose ends they have left to wrap up that they can afford to waste so much time. Next week's episode does look fantastic, but I've been burned by the hyped up previews that turn out to be a big let down too many times, so I'll remain cautiously optimistic.

[Onion]

That's why I never watch the previews.

[Sly]

smokey could of killed the people on hydra island but so could of whitmore which is why smokey sent sawyer there to find out because both smokey and jacob knew he was coming to the island? I dunno it's been awhile since I watched it and I've got a 6 hr delay in DIA so I'm bored.

[Onion]

Wtf you could have called me and we could have hung out for like 4 hours you faggot

[Sly]

Like I'd want to see your fagmo face anyways




actually I tried the number I had in my phone for you and it was some arabian chick that answered

[Sly]

alright so I got the whole rest of the season mapped out and all from this episode you guys said meant nothing

I'm a little high and a little drunk and extremely exhausted but it makes perfect sense in my head so just hear me out

A] smokey didn't kill the people on hydra because he can't pass OVER water only under. hence why there was never pylons set up on hydra before and why the others' sub was always in the pyloned area. and why they whidmore is only setting up pylons around the sub and not really anywhere else.

B] Whidmore is trying to kill everyone and anyone that specifically crashed on the island because they could all be a potential candidate and he knows that jacob is dead so he can't select any new candidates. Whidmore wants both jacob and smokey dead after all the candidate are dead or gone so he can be supreme deity or what have you of the island. Whidmore knows that there is another "dimension" happening in the real world outside of the island "dimension" (more on this later)

C] smokey knew Whidmore was there through some device or maybe even the lighthouse that whidmore was there and killed all the remaining passengers and so he sent sawyer over there to check if he would honor the deal, because I think smokey would rather have sawyer replace him then kate (read on)

D] smokey is turning kate against claire because he wants kate to prove that she is truly a bad person so she can take his place since he has to honor his deal with sawyer.

E] and you might be asking why would smokey honor the deal with sawyer? because smokey is also aware of this alternate "dimension" and also knows that if sawyer and any other returns to the real world they will inevitably run into their alternate selves and boom they die or blow up or just disappear. which is why they are playing so hard on this alternate "dimension"

why smokey wants off the island? I do not know still

[Yooxra]

alright so I got the whole rest of the season mapped out and all from this episode you guys said meant nothing

I'm a little high and a little drunk and extremely exhausted but it makes perfect sense in my head so just hear me out

A] smokey didn't kill the people on hydra because he can't pass OVER water only under. hence why there was never pylons set up on hydra before and why the others' sub was always in the pyloned area. and why they whidmore is only setting up pylons around the sub and not really anywhere else.

B] Whidmore is trying to kill everyone and anyone that specifically crashed on the island because they could all be a potential candidate and he knows that jacob is dead so he can't select any new candidates. Whidmore wants both jacob and smokey dead after all the candidate are dead or gone so he can be supreme deity or what have you of the island. Whidmore knows that there is another "dimension" happening in the real world outside of the island "dimension" (more on this later)

C] smokey knew Whidmore was there through some device or maybe even the lighthouse that whidmore was there and killed all the remaining passengers and so he sent sawyer over there to check if he would honor the deal, because I think smokey would rather have sawyer replace him then kate (read on)

D] smokey is turning kate against claire because he wants kate to prove that she is truly a bad person so she can take his place since he has to honor his deal with sawyer.

E] and you might be asking why would smokey honor the deal with sawyer? because smokey is also aware of this alternate "dimension" and also knows that if sawyer and any other returns to the real world they will inevitably run into their alternate selves and boom they die or blow up or just disappear. which is why they are playing so hard on this alternate "dimension"

why smokey wants off the island? I do not know still

Your theories are alittle different than most people on here. Welcome to the lost party.

[Onion]

sly wtf my number hasn't changed 541-550-0232

[rursusferre]

So, this was a pretty good episode. Not the massive story episode they led us to believe, but there were some things about the island and it's point revealed.

[Nucholza]

I'm pretty exhausted right now so this is all I'm gonna say at the time:

Glad they didn't stick with the island being Hell. But maybe its purgatory instead?

How the hell did Isabella's spirit get to the island?

[Yooxra]

I'm pretty exhausted right now so this is all I'm gonna say at the time:

Glad they didn't stick with the island being Hell. But maybe its purgatory instead?

How the hell did Isabella's spirit get to the island?

We talked about the island being purgatory before and the plot made it all to easy to make smokey the devil and jacob well you know. Not surpising at all. The episode was good, i enjoyed it. Tired, bb tomorrow.

[rursusferre]

No, i dont think its hell or anything like that. For Smokey it is hell in a sense, but I think they kept saying that because they were dealing with a more "primitive" time period. I guess the big thing we learned is that essential, the island is a prison for smokey. That seems to be its underlying purpose, and basically everything that has happened in the show is to make sure he stays there.

[Nucholza]

No, i dont think its hell or anything like that. For Smokey it is hell in a sense, but I think they kept saying that because they were dealing with a more "primitive" time period. I guess the big thing we learned is that essential, the island is a prison for smokey. That seems to be its underlying purpose, and basically everything that has happened in the show is to make sure he stays there.

Right, but couldn't that be purgatory still? Purgatory is a place where you wait and be judged for your sins and you either redeem yourself or end up going to hell. Couldn't keeping Smokey from leaving the island be their test? Richard begged the priest for forgiveness for the murder he committed and the priest told him he wouldn't give him absolution and that Richard would have to earn it himself through penance, but that he wouldn't live long enough for that to happen. Then Jacob brings Richard to the island and give him the "gift" of living "forever". Then Isabella shows up and tells Hurley that they have to stop Smokey from leaving or else they'll be going to Hell.

[Gogan]

I would think the same thing (that the island is purgatory) but the writers came right out and denied it from the very beginning. It was one of the first theories about the island ever since S1, actually. There are plenty of quotes from Lindelof and Abrams flat out denying it on several occasions over the years:

http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Purgatory_(debunked_theory)
http://www.losttvfans.com/page/Purgatory

[rursusferre]

When richard was still chained up and smokey was freeing him, I was kinda expecting smokey to say "my name is Jacob". Just to find out Richard had been fucked with all along. I am curious about the "pre-Richard" island people too, now. I am curious about these "choices" and wonder why they were all dead.

[Nucholza]

I wonder how smokey lost his old body. When oceanic 815 crashed on the island did he still have the body we see back when Richard first arrived or had he already lost that body? And if he had already lost that body, then whose form did he take before Locke?

Maybe I'm forgetting something, but did we ever come to explanation for how people saw people who shouldn't have been on the island like walt - I can't remember if it was Hurley or someone else that saw walt at some point after he was off the island. Didn't we come to the conclusion that Smokey could only take the form of people who arrived on the island already dead?

P.S. I'm at a computer lab on campus between classes and someone just farted really, really loud. I laughed.

[Yooxra]

Right, but couldn't that be purgatory still? Purgatory is a place where you wait and be judged for your sins and you either redeem yourself or end up going to hell. Couldn't keeping Smokey from leaving the island be their test? Richard begged the priest for forgiveness for the murder he committed and the priest told him he wouldn't give him absolution and that Richard would have to earn it himself through penance, but that he wouldn't live long enough for that to happen. Then Jacob brings Richard to the island and give him the "gift" of living "forever". Then Isabella shows up and tells Hurley that they have to stop Smokey from leaving or else they'll be going to Hell.

Jacob did say to Richard that "whatever you did before doesn't matter, what you do from this point on does".

What i think is, and i have come to the same conclusion long ago even tho they said it wasn't that the island is purgatory. Those that fail and die on the island go to hell(I could be wrong but i don't think i have seen a ghost of someone that actually died on the island, have we?). The spirits seen on the island are guides trying to keep their loved ones on the path to heaven(notice Richard about to give in and Isabella keeping him from doing that, with Hugo's help of course). Think about it, Jacob says we must keep the darkness on the island or else it will consume the world. So maybe that is the test of purgatory, notice throughout all stories many people go to hell but many few go to heaven. So maybe the person that takes Jacob's place is allowed passage to heaven. Or i could be totally wrong but this is how the show is currently protraying it.

[Yooxra]

When richard was still chained up and smokey was freeing him, I was kinda expecting smokey to say "my name is Jacob". Just to find out Richard had been fucked with all along. I am curious about the "pre-Richard" island people too, now. I am curious about these "choices" and wonder why they were all dead.

The only reason that Smokey didn't kill Richard also is cause he used him in his first attempt to have Jacob killed.

So let me get this straight since Smokey used Richard. Was Isabella really Smokey when she looked alive on the island and tryed to help Richard? Then walked up the stairs of the boat and sounded like she met with a excruciating painfull dead. I'm guessing it had to be Smokey just trying to further convince Richard to kill Jacob cause Isabella was already dead.

[Yooxra]

I wonder how smokey lost his old body. When oceanic 815 crashed on the island did he still have the body we see back when Richard first arrived or had he already lost that body? And if he had already lost that body, then whose form did he take before Locke?

Maybe I'm forgetting something, but did we ever come to explanation for how people saw people who shouldn't have been on the island like walt - I can't remember if it was Hurley or someone else that saw walt at some point after he was off the island. Didn't we come to the conclusion that Smokey could only take the form of people who arrived on the island already dead?

P.S. I'm at a computer lab on campus between classes and someone just farted really, really loud. I laughed.

I'm alittle confused too about the Smokey body snatching changing thing cause of what happened on the boat with Isabella.

[Onion]

Not sure how to explain the Isabella being on the island part.

I thought it was really interesting how Jacob first interacted with Richard. I felt like we were seeing a completely different person when he attacked Richard and then took him to the sea and attempted to drown him. It's almost like Richard turned Jacob into the peaceful person we came to know and that the Others followed.

I think it's kind of cool to see that Jacob had never really thought of it the way Richard did when he says "If you don't, he will" when Jacob ask him "Why should I tell them what to do, that would defeat the purpose."

Also this confirmed our suspicions that Jacob brought people to the island to show that people are not all corruptable, even though he had failed with everyone so far until Oceanic 815.

I don't think that the island is related to hell at all, I believe it is exactly as Jacob described it: the thing stopping the darkness from overtaking the world. I believe it's a type of prison designed to hold smokey. Smokey calls it hell because that's what it is to him, and Richard thought it was hell initially because what else could spawn something as terrible as the black smoke.

[DijonQ]

I don't think the island is hell, purgatory or anything of that nature. Although I'm not an expert I don't think you can drive a submarine, freighter, or anything else to either of these places.

My anger is growing by the episode. Maybe I'm just in a negative mindset to insulate myself from what I see as inevitable disappointment, but these episodes all feel like filler to me and not progress. This was what? The 9th episode before the finale? And we got to see Richard's past, but the first half hour did nothing to progress the storyline.

[rursusferre]

Yep, I said the same thing to Melissa. It was nice to learn about Richard, but 80% of the episode, if not more, didn't do more for the overall story. They really are running out of time, unless they plan on really just rattling everything off in one episode.

[Nucholza]

Yep, I said the same thing to Melissa. It was nice to learn about Richard, but 80% of the episode, if not more, didn't do more for the overall story. They really are running out of time, unless they plan on really just rattling everything off in one episode.

It probably won't even be an episode. Just a black screen with white text in bullet points giving off the facts and diagrams made in MS paint. This is where stag has really been all these years.

[Yooxra]

I don't think the island is hell, purgatory or anything of that nature. Although I'm not an expert I don't think you can drive a submarine, freighter, or anything else to either of these places.

My anger is growing by the episode. Maybe I'm just in a negative mindset to insulate myself from what I see as inevitable disappointment, but these episodes all feel like filler to me and not progress. This was what? The 9th episode before the finale? And we got to see Richard's past, but the first half hour did nothing to progress the storyline.

With how they are going and really trying to make it out to be good vs evil/ purgatory(again) it's not gonna be in the end. They really seem like they are preping to just take another right turn which will lead the show in it's last direction.

I decided at the beginning of the season with all the hype and expecting to much that i was just going to enjoy it even if i didn't enjoy it lol. I rather not be mad in the end and just enjoy the show for being addictive and just mostly enjoyable.

[Yooxra]

It probably won't even be an episode. Just a black screen with white text in bullet points giving off the facts and diagrams made in MS paint. This is where stag has really been all these years.

Nuch lol, that was a really good one.

[Fusa]

Im going with the sopranos ending

[Yooxra]

Im going with the sopranos ending

I wouldn't mind smokey getting his wish and in the process kill everyone when he morphs out of locke's body and morphs into this!!!


http://motivateurself.files.wordpress.com/2008/05/velociraptor-with-a-jetpack-and-scissors.jpg?

[Yooxra]

Bout time Desmond is back. What sacrifice is Charles talking about?

So war is coming. So who is the package? Desmond?

[Gogan]

Yeah, Desmond is the package.

[DijonQ]

Wishful thinking, but I was hoping the package was Walt/Aaron. Desmond makes sense though. With his "anomaly" status in island lore.

[rursusferre]

Yeah DQ. I am sure it's desmond, but I thought of walt/aaron too.

[Onion]

That was a terrible episode

[Yooxra]

Yeah DQ. I am sure it's desmond, but I thought of walt/aaron too.

I gave both some thought, but it's easier to choose Desmond cause of Whitmore's hate for him. Specially when talk of sacrifice.

So Smokey showing his true colors when he says to Claire once we are clear of the island do with Kate as you want, who cares pretty much. We knew his agenda and his ways, but now that he is getting close to his goal he shows his evil side more and more. Seems like in the finale he is going to still be trapped and those he is recuiting that are still alive will be freed by the candidate winner(next Jacob). Or maybe they will or die in a firey death.

[Yooxra]

Tonight's episode was super AWEOSME!

Desmond story/Faraday story owns. Bb tomorrow.

[rursusferre]

Finally some awnsers. We know what this alternative story IS at least. Might not make sense for the overall story, but atleast we know what it is.

[Nucholza]

When the episode first started out and desmonde passed out and went to the alternate timeline, I was pretty disappointed and thought it was going to just be another stupid episode. They did a good job with this one though and I'm excited once again. I like how many parallels they make - it's pretty crazy.

We learned quite a bit about the "lost family tree" so to speak, unless I just missed the whole charlie being whidmore's son, eloise being his wife, and daniel being his son as well. I wonder who penny's mom is or have we met her already at some point and she's just not important?

So it seems that this alternate time line started after the nuke was set off which presents a fairly obvious question: is the fight on the island with Locke et al happening after Desmonde goes and tells everyone that they're living a lie or is it happening simultaneously and the two realities will converge with even more parallelism into either a single existence, the destruction of both, or the death of one.

[Cruci]

When the episode first started out and desmonde passed out and went to the alternate timeline, I was pretty disappointed and thought it was going to just be another stupid episode. They did a good job with this one though and I'm excited once again. I like how many parallels they make - it's pretty crazy.

We learned quite a bit about the "lost family tree" so to speak, unless I just missed the whole charlie being whidmore's son, eloise being his wife, and daniel being his son as well. I wonder who penny's mom is or have we met her already at some point and she's just not important?

So it seems that this alternate time line started after the nuke was set off which presents a fairly obvious question: is the fight on the island with Locke et al happening after Desmonde goes and tells everyone that they're living a lie or is it happening simultaneously and the two realities will converge with even more parallelism into either a single existence, the destruction of both, or the death of one.

The alternate time-line couldn't have started after the nuke went off as everybody, especially int his episode, is completely different and both Daniel and Charlie were dead prior to the nuke. One of the recurring themes is that dead is dead so my guess for now is that the alternate time-line was always there, the events on the island somehow bridge the gap between multiple dimensions.

[rursusferre]

charlie isn't widmoore's son, they just lead you on at first, until you find out its daniel.

[Yooxra]

As I start to watch this episode about Hugo i start to cringe and wonder if it's even worth watching.

[rursusferre]

not a bad episode. Quick point: are the people who are dead in world A seemingly the ones in world B who are remembering?

[Nucholza]

As I start to watch this episode about Hugo i start to cringe and wonder if it's even worth watching.

hahaha I thought the same thing. The Hugo flash started and I thought "man fuck this fatass this episode already sucks"

Quick point: are the people who are dead in world A seemingly the ones in world B who are remembering?

I'm assuming by world A you mean the timeline on the island and world B is the timeline where they never crashed on the island - if so then I don't think so. Desmonde and Hugo aren't dead and they're both remembering.

My favorite part of the episode tonight was probably when that one bitch blew up right as she was about to tell them what the island actually is. Did anyone else think Desmonde was going to run down Locke? The way he was looking at him while Ben was talking just didn't seem right. I wonder if Desmonde doing that will have any impact on the timeline with the island.

Remember a few seasons ago when Whidmore's ship came to the island with Farraday and co. and Desmonde and the doctor or someone were having those flashes where they were in a different place and their consicousness was shifting? I forgot all about that until this episode - did they ever explain what was happening to Desmonde after he "anchored" himself with Penny to stop it or did they just leave it at that?

I have the feeling this is alternate timeline we're seeing this season is the same kind of thing and eventually that shift of consciousness will happen.

[Onion]

I think that Desmond either ran down Locke to A) try and kill him, or B) try and get him into surgery/contact with Jack so that he could fix his spine or something which would trigger each of their memories.

I think that Sawyer and Kate are going to trigger each other too.

Also did it seem to you guys like Jack seemed all of the sudden really afraid when he saw Smokey, and Smokey noticed that and smiled?

[Nucholza]

try and get him into surgery/contact with Jack so that he could fix his spine or something which would trigger each of their memories.

That would make sense, wouldn't surprise me at all.

Also did it seem to you guys like Jack seemed all of the sudden really afraid when he saw Smokey, and Smokey noticed that and smiled?

Yeah it did seem like that, maybe Jack knows something he's not saying.

[Gogan]

Wow, just caught up after missing last week's episode. Two really great episodes finally!

I loved the preview for next week's episode too, when they played Willy Wonka over the upcoming scenes:

There's no earthly way of knowing / Which direction we are going / Not a speck of light is showing / So the danger must be growing / Are the fires of hell a-glowing? / Is the grisly reaper mowing? / Yes, the danger must be growing / And they're certainly not showing / Any signs that they are slowing!

So perfect!!

[rursusferre]

well, hurley and desmonde only remember after being told/coming in contract with two people who were dead in world A. Desmond met charlie and hurley met libby. Charlie and Libby were the ones who remembered first, and then told hurley and desmonde. Also, Daniel faraday remembered as well.

[rursusferre]

Also when that chick exploded I died laughing. Jack has been acting differnet and I think it's because whatever has had to happen to him to make him "it" might have happened. I think that maybe when he saw Locke, he didn't see Locke. Locke recognized this and smiled realizing his was his new Jacob.

[Onion]

I just realized that Desmond may have been trying to give Locke a near death experience like he and Charlie both had in order to give him his flash to the other reality.

BTW calling it right now, that limo driver for Widmore has some semi important role to play in all of this.

[Yooxra]

well, hurley and desmonde only remember after being told/coming in contract with two people who were dead in world A. Desmond met charlie and hurley met libby. Charlie and Libby were the ones who remembered first, and then told hurley and desmonde. Also, Daniel faraday remembered as well.

Didn't seem like when Hugo and Desmond were told about the people they loved is what triggered it. It's when they felt that moment of love that triggered it. Cause Charlie tryed to convince Desmond and he wouldn't listen till he went out to see Penny. Libby told Hugo, but he couldn't remember either till she kissed him is what triggered it. So Desmond is now Q-pid. As for Locke, that theory sounds just about right. Seems like Desmond is going to make enough of them have that strong experience they need to cause the shift like Faraday tryed to with the nuke.

I missed the preview. I'm wondering if Desmond is dead from being tossed into the well. Looking forward to seeing what happens with Locke/Jack in B. I'd like to see if Faraday comes back into the mix and helps Desmond finish what he has started. Also looking forward to seeing what happens with the camps meeting up.

Last two episodes were great. Can't wait to see next.

[Onion]

How many episodes do we have left?

[rursusferre]

Desmonde is alive.

[Yooxra]

Desmonde is alive.

Figured he was.

What about the Locke situation, i'm wondering what about if he does have that moment where he can see the memories of Locke on the island. Does Locke help Desmond fight Smokey or does Locke in world B become Smokey? Then Smokey in world B if so trys to kill Desmond there like in world A.

Hmm..

[Yooxra]

How many episodes do we have left?

That was 12th but i think episode one counts as 2 so that was really 11? Then the final is 2 so maybe 5 left(4 plus final?)? Something like that.

[Yooxra]

hahaha I thought the same thing. The Hugo flash started and I thought "man fuck this fatass this episode already sucks"



I'm assuming by world A you mean the timeline on the island and world B is the timeline where they never crashed on the island - if so then I don't think so. Desmonde and Hugo aren't dead and they're both remembering.

My favorite part of the episode tonight was probably when that one bitch blew up right as she was about to tell them what the island actually is. Did anyone else think Desmonde was going to run down Locke? The way he was looking at him while Ben was talking just didn't seem right. I wonder if Desmonde doing that will have any impact on the timeline with the island.

Remember a few seasons ago when Whidmore's ship came to the island with Farraday and co. and Desmonde and the doctor or someone were having those flashes where they were in a different place and their consicousness was shifting? I forgot all about that until this episode - did they ever explain what was happening to Desmonde after he "anchored" himself with Penny to stop it or did they just leave it at that?

I have the feeling this is alternate timeline we're seeing this season is the same kind of thing and eventually that shift of consciousness will happen.

Yeah Elana blowing up was pretty funny.

Probably so about the shifting. Now that you bring it up it is similar.

Btw Richard also brought up tonight what the island actually is to Hugo, but we still don't know what it is.

[Nucholza]

Btw Richard also brought up tonight what the island actually is to Hugo, but we still don't know what it is.

Yeah I thought it was pretty stupid that Richard went on about Jacob having told him what the island is, yet no one asked him to tell. You'd think they'd want to know, right?

[Onion]

We know what Jacob told him, he doesn't even truly know what that means.

[DijonQ]

I also thought it was laughable that Jack would sit there and not ask Hugo or Richard what the island was. Maybe he already knows? Because the change has happened.

My GF reads people.com and the day after every episode the interview the character who was the focus of current episode. I haven't read the interviews myself, but she told me that in Hurley's interview he said something to the effect of: They don't really lay all the answers out there until the last half of the series finale. .....punch me in the face

[Onion]

I also thought it was laughable that Jack would sit there and not ask Hugo or Richard what the island was. Maybe he already knows? Because the change has happened.

Jack said it himself in the episode, he's learning to let go and trust people instead of being in charge.

[rursusferre]

goddamn it

[Yooxra]

So it was no surpise when Smokey told Jack that he was in control of his father and probably everyone else.

So i didn't notice a preview for next week. Final is May 23rd. With 4 episodes left i think they are off next week.

So, they keep making it seem like whoever talks to Smokey is pretty much with him, but how is this true after those that are trying to escape him currently, and Claire, and Sayid. They do one thing and the rules change on the fly, expected. So i'm gonna go with Sayid let Desmond live and lied to Smoke.

[Gogan]

Desmond is clearly too important for them to kill off like that. He's definitely still alive.

Maybe they meant 4 episodes until the finale? If that's the case, they're still on track for May 23 without interruption.

[Nucholza]

There is not a new episode next week, then 3 regular episodes and then a 2 hour finale.

[Onion]

Vayd said in an interview with Hugo he said we don't get any real answers until about halfway through the finale.

Also, apparently the episode on May 11th is going to be a focus on the relationship between smokey and jacob.

Also, the finale is on a Sunday? lamecore

[Gogan]

Most important moment of tonight's show? Locke mumbling about the button when he was asleep after surgery. Not sure what it means exactly yet, but that's gotta be huge.